(09-30-2015, 06:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Define efficient in this case.
New England scored more points in the season.
Had a higher overall quality of offense. 
Fewer fumbles and interceptions.

More efficient.

Now if you are referring strictly to QB rating, then you absolutely have to factor in the 200 more attempts Brady had over Wilson. 

(09-30-2015, 06:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Seahawks were much more efficient in the run game and the pass game.

Now are you going to choose the more efficient Seahawks offense or the more volume NE offense?

How about a simple what QB would you rather have in your offense. 2013 Brady who was much less efficient or 2013 Wilson who was much more efficient?

Efficiency doesn't = who's better. Passer rating = efficiency.

(09-30-2015, 08:37 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Seahawks were not better or more efficient in the pass game. 
They had a higher turnover ratio
They scored fewer points. 

You are completely ignoring the other factors here. 

Again you are completely ignoring the vast differences in attempts.

(09-30-2015, 06:35 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: In 2013 Seattle had a much more efficient offense than New England, but New England scored more points. So you would have taken Seattles offense over NEs in 2013?

(09-30-2015, 06:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Efficiency doesn't = who's better. Passer rating = efficiency.

(09-30-2015, 11:14 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Efficient doesn't mean game manager. That's where your whole argument fails. 

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning

Both efficient. Both always at the top of passer rating.

(09-30-2015, 11:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Did New England win the Super Bowl?

(09-30-2015, 11:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: But that's where passer rating fails. It makes game managers look better than what they are just because they throw less passes.

(09-30-2015, 11:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nope. He still has to complete the passes. Passer rating doesn't make anyone look better. They make themselves look better or worse.

(09-30-2015, 11:19 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: If the Patriots had the Seahawks defense that year they would have blown everyone out.

(09-30-2015, 02:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: You just have the national media setting narratives and Bengals fans follow. Dalton was on the same tear in 2013 ended with career and record setting numbers, but the national media called him a bum (said he was below average, Jaws ranked him below Bradford, Stafford, Cutler, Kaep) and told us he should be cut and we should be in the market of a new qb (hello Carr/Bridgewater/Johnny football) fans ran with it. It looks like he will have 2013 numbers again this year and the media tells us he's turned the corner and those same fans run wit that narrative. If you've watched Dalton you know his ceiling and we are seeing it. We've seen it before. It's nothing new, the consistency maybe but it's only been 3 games. Those national media heads acting like it's a new Dalton, just are out to cover for their unfair narrative of his career accomplishments.

Fact is Dalton has been a very successful qb, and shouldn't't be ashamed of his career as a 2nd round draft pick. There are many teams, 28 other ones, who wish they were lucky enough to have a below average qb. Why? Cause only 4 other teams have made the playoffs back to back years the last 4 (and looking like 5) years. It's time the national media focuses on the qb's of those other 28 teams. Not one of the big 4.

(09-30-2015, 06:22 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Andy has played better in 2015 than he ever has in his career. This is just a case of you watching the stat sheets and the rest of us watching the games.

Stop the bullshit with the last paragraph, it's just a total waste of an argument because it makes you look like a complete joke. Nobody has ever said the wins are on the team but the losses are on Andy, so grow up and stop making shit up. Blatantly lying just makes you look stupid and doesn't help your argument. This is the exact bullshit that you always pull that makes you look silly in the Andy debates. You think you're going to write a "gotcha!" post by putting words into others' mouths.

Okay, here we go, I'll play the jj game. As always jj, we know the rules. Wins are on Andy, but losses are on the team. Maybe you should stop blaming the team for everything bad and giving Andy too much credit for everything. You need to stop calling him elite and stop saying that he's better than Joe Montana. You shouldn't say that he's the greatest quarterback of all time because that's wrong.

See? Are my arguments better now that I'm just making shit up?

(10-01-2015, 09:44 AM)jj22 Wrote: Nobody is just watching the stat sheet. He won Offensive player of the month award for a reason. He was playing great the month of October in 2013. Big wins (last second drives) vs the Lions, Bills etc. You are the only one denying that. And that's fine. Your entitled to your opinion. By the way as many stats you throw around, don't tell me to not use stats when they don't benefit your argument. That's lame for the record, and you can do a little better than that with your comebacks. Now go back to arguing passer ratings (a stat) and remember telling me how I need to ignore stat in the same breath.

(10-01-2015, 02:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: Fair enough Dj. I just don't think he can maintain it and folks propping him up now are going to turn on him something vicious soon. And suddenly he'll be a bum, one of the worse qb's in the league, and all these good qualities that he's had but just hasn't been able to be consistent  with will be forgotten. Much like his October of 2013 was (when pundits were quick to act like we needed to draft his replacement that offseason). And I know you think I'm just looking at stats, but that was the month that I saw what you guys are now seeing and I've defended Daltons abilities ever since. I had those games dvr'd and rewatched them that offseason over and over again, so I do remember and Dalton was slinging it that month on par with how he is now.

I'm going to wait until he has a longer stretch (at least 5 games) before I'm sold that he's turned a corner. He's had these stretches before, he just can't maintain them. I have seen anything yet that makes me certain he can. But we're about to see in a couple more weeks.

Question. Do you think he'll win the offensive player of the month award for September? He certainly deserves it for the AFC if they choose a qb. Maybe October of 2013 didn't have that many candidates if you think that award meant nothing.

(10-01-2015, 09:54 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I never said to not use stats, just don't act like stats are the only thing to consider when discussing how well a QB is playing. Stats are great to discuss, but you're ignoring what Andy is putting on the field in 2015 for some reason.

Andy looks like a transformed QB in 2015 and is showing us some stuff that we've NEVER seen from him, not even in October 2013. It's nothing guaranteed to continue, but it has absolutely happened thus far. Most people throughout many threads have mentioned such things and have noticed huge differences in his performances this season. You're the first person that I've seen to disagree, but hey, you probably know better than EVERYBODY else, right?

Andy Dalton is playing the best football of his professional career right now, and nothing you say will change that. I'll stick to watching the games AND the stats while evaluating his play and you can talk about his awards in 2013 as your defense.

(10-01-2015, 02:28 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I've never seen Andy make some of the throws that he has this year, not even in October of 2013.