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+--- Thread: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias (/Thread-LE-Leaks-show-treatment-of-pro-BLM-protestors-vs-conservative-militias)
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Dill - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 04:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dill Wrote: [b]Claiming that the shooters in this case had "admitted to murder"--when the "proof" is merely that the shooters admitted to shooting--is a clear example of injecting "opinion" into fact, and then "stating opinion as fact."
[/b]
You keep doing you, Dill, no worries. I'm very confident that other people reading the thread will be able to discern what is factual and what is opinion. If you feel you need to get in the last word, that's ok, I'm used to that.
LOL this is what you mean by "done." It's what I mean by dismissing arguments you cannot refute.
"Admitted to shooting" or "admitted to murder"?
Agreed--people will be able to tell which is simply a statement of fact and which disguises a pre-judgment as fact, just as they can tell who owns each statement.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-22-2020
I'm just waiting the for the Bundy Clan to jump in and defend these protestors rights!
I think I'll be waiting for quite awhile....
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Dill - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 04:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll be an adult and answer directly, don't make me regret it, please. It is an opinion strongly backed by the following known facts;
Armed vigilantes actively looked for the Jeep.
Armed vigilantes shot into the Jeep.
There is no evidence that anyone in the Jeep fired any shots.
The Jeep rammed a concrete barrier (perhaps while attempting to flee). The barrier could not be penetrated by the car.
After the initial flurry of shots a person can be clearly heard saying, "Oh you're not dead yet?", followed by an ~10 second pause and then a final gun shot.
When police arrived to investigate the crime scene had been heavily tampered with.
None of these are facts are in dispute and all strongly point to this confrontation being instigated by the vigilantes, which would make the killing a murder. Additionally, someone fired a single shot, well after the initial confrontation after someone commented on the victims not being "dead yet". If you disagree that these facts don't point to a murder occurring, fine. Just please don't waste my time further disputing any of the above.
A good start, but some lapse in the final paragraph.
I sense something missing from this indisputable account.
If I'm on the jury, I'll want to know why the "vigilantes" (another "opinion strongly backed by facts"?) singled out this particular Jeep to "look for" and shoot into.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - fredtoast - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 04:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There is no evidence that anyone in the Jeep fired any shots.
None of these are facts are in dispute
I have posted multiple videos of people saying there were shot fired from the Jeep.
The video YOU posted starts with a person warning the CHOP residents of multiple shots fired from a stolen Jeep.
How do you justify claiming there is NO EVIDENCE when I have posted the videos? How can you claim that fact is "not in dispute"?
But at least it is good for you to admit that every time you used the term "murderer" it was an opinion instead of a fact.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have posted multiple videos of people saying there were shot fired from the Jeep.
Apologies, no physical evidence.
Quote:The video YOU posted starts with a person warning the CHOP residents of multiple shots fired from a stolen Jeep.
Yup.
Quote:How do you justify claiming there is NO EVIDENCE when I have posted the videos? How can you claim that fact is "not in dispute"?
No physical evidence.
Quote:But at least it is good for you to admit that every time you used the term "murderer" it was an opinion instead of a fact.
Yes, I have the ability to admit when I made my opinion sound like fact. If only we all had that ability, it would make these conversations much easier.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Nately120 - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 05:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm just waiting the for the Bundy Clan to jump in and defend these protestors rights!
I think I'll be waiting for quite awhile....
My first exposure to that Bundy guy was seeing him on Fox News while my gf at the time's parents were watching. They kept looping video of him riding a horse and holding the American flag and my only take was "I don't know who this guy is, but they're really trying to make him look good so he must have done something pretty noteworthy."
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - fredtoast - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 05:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My first exposure to that Bundy guy was seeing him on Fox News while my gf at the time's parents were watching. They kept looping video of him riding a horse and holding the American flag and my only take was "I don't know who this guy is, but they're really trying to make him look good so he must have done something pretty noteworthy."
I think he scored 5 tds in the high school city championship game.
![[Image: al-bundy_display_image.jpg]](http://wu-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/al-bundy_display_image.jpg)
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Nately120 - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think he scored 5 tds in one high school football game.
I hear he also got into hot water with his employer by doing some unauthorized computer shilling.
![[Image: King-Kong-Bundy-computer-ad-2.jpg]](https://wrestlecrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/King-Kong-Bundy-computer-ad-2.jpg)
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
Two more cities with Trump's goons pulled from ICE and Border patrol walking the streets.
Are we tired of winning yet?
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
Lack of coordination with the local officials...just another Trump Administration Hallmark. No plan other than a wanna be tough guy telling underling to send in the troops to "get the bad guys".
This is what you supporters are defending. The ones who kept saying his lack of experience was good because the "old ways didn't work". Congrats on the new way I guess.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/tom-ridge-says-cold-day-in-hell-before-hed-let-feds-patrol-pa-cities-uninvited/2476124/
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
I wonder what federal law she broke to DESERVE this and make people support the actions of the officers?
My very old friend and colleague Maureen Healy--a fellow historian and Chair of History at Lewis and Clark College in Portland--was shot above her eye by Trump's federal officers last night in #Portland. Please take a moment to read her statement. #BlackLivesMatter #Vote pic.twitter.com/IhJMo81iwA
— Michael "Wear a Mask" Yudell (@PublicsHealth) July 22, 2020
![[Image: EdkPcIqWkAEVrvo?format=png&name=900x900]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdkPcIqWkAEVrvo?format=png&name=900x900)
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
Here is a shield and a couple of gas masks from a rioter arrested in Portland. Not a sign with a slogan that someone expressing their first amendment rights might carry, but preparations for violence. Peaceful protester? I don’t think so. pic.twitter.com/0Re1V129ge
— Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli (@HomelandKen) July 23, 2020
Showing up at a protest like this is fine if you are pro-Trump, however. pic.twitter.com/YziiqgxF0F
— Helen Kennedy (@HelenKennedy) July 23, 2020
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 11:56 AM)GMDino Wrote:Here is a shield and a couple of gas masks from a rioter arrested in Portland. Not a sign with a slogan that someone expressing their first amendment rights might carry, but preparations for violence. Peaceful protester? I don’t think so. pic.twitter.com/0Re1V129ge
— Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli (@HomelandKen) July 23, 2020
Showing up at a protest like this is fine if you are pro-Trump, however. pic.twitter.com/YziiqgxF0F
— Helen Kennedy (@HelenKennedy) July 23, 2020
People from protest in picture one were not peaceful. People in picture from protest two were peaceful. That's the only difference of any significance. If you took away disingenuous arguments the left wouldn't have a word to say.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-23-2020
Please feel free to view this video on the "peaceful" protests. I'm sure a history professor could come up with some comparison for this type of behavior.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - fredtoast - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: People in picture from protest two were peaceful.
You don't know this.
Federal agents have been arresting many people who are not doing anything violent.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: People from protest in picture one were not peaceful. People in picture from protest two were peaceful. That's the only difference of any significance. If you took away disingenuous arguments the left wouldn't have a word to say.
One had protective gear, one was armed.
We don't know if the first group was peaceful or not because the Trump Squad just gasses and beats anyone they see in the vicinity.
We only found out the second group was peaceful after they were allowed to protest without being gassed and beaten.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - GMDino - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Please feel free to view this video on the "peaceful" protests. I'm sure a history professor could come up with some comparison for this type of behavior.
You could have just said peaceful protestors shouldn't be gassed and shot in the face.
I know, I know...that goes without saying. Some people just never say it. Weird.
Anyway I guess the people in that video that I didn't watch yet are just a few "bad apples"?
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - fredtoast - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: People in picture from protest two were peaceful.
Why do peaceful protestors need guns?
What would they have done if they had been tear gassed and beaten by federal agents?
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Belsnickel - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Please feel free to view this video on the "peaceful" protests. I'm sure a history professor could come up with some comparison for this type of behavior.
Here's my rub, when discussing this issue with folks I know in the area, they are talking about how isolated this is. I don't know how accurate it is what they are saying, but that's their view on it. Also, I don't think anyone really has too much of an issue if feds were reacting to this stuff. That is completely reasonable. However, the video that really kicked off the controversy was someone walking on a street not involved in something like this. There have, as has been pointed out, instances where people have been picked up mistakenly. I've seen video of journalists, credentialed and everything, being cuffed and searched including removing their credentials from their waist all while they are vomiting from the tear gas.
We can all see that there is some rough shit going down in Portland, but there does seem to be activity from law enforcement that isn't helping the situation at hand.
RE: LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-23-2020
(07-23-2020, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why do peaceful protestors need guns?
Immaterial, they were breaking no laws.
Quote:What would they have done if they had been tear gassed and beaten by federal agents?
Immaterial, they weren't.