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Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Belsnickel - 07-28-2020 Trump has threatened to veto such a measure, but the Senate has passed the legislation with a veto-proof majority. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/23/senate-defense-bill-ndaa-bases-trump-380362 Quote:The Senate overwhelmingly passed its $741 billion defense policy legislation on Thursday, with the Republican-led body defying a threat from President Donald Trump to veto legislation that would force the removal of Confederate names from Army bases. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 06:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Trump has threatened to veto such a measure, but the Senate has passed the legislation with a veto-proof majority. He won't veto it. They tied it to defense funding and Biden would make great political hay out of "Trump vetoing money for our troops". I don't really have a problem with the rename, although my sister was born at Fort Lee when my father was stationed there. Of all the Confederate generals he's the only one I'd still recognize in this fashion. He felt more loyalty to his state than the nation, which was not an uncommon sentiment back then. Hell, it might not be such an uncommon sentiment right now. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Belsnickel - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 07:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He won't veto it. They tied it to defense funding and Biden would make great political hay out of "Trump vetoing money for our troops". I don't really have a problem with the rename, although my sister was born at Fort Lee when my father was stationed there. Of all the Confederate generals he's the only one I'd still recognize in this fashion. He felt more loyalty to his state than the nation, which was not an uncommon sentiment back then. Hell, it might not be such an uncommon sentiment right now. I admit nothing. As for Lee, eh, I don't harbor much in the way of goodwill towards a man who saw slavery as good for black people and fought to preserve it. He also was a rather cruel slaveowner, intentionally breaking up families. His estate was one descended from George Washington due to his wife and some of the families he broke up had been together since Mount Vernon days. His army also enslaved free black people in the north and shipped them back south. The image of the honorable Lee is a creation of the Lost Cause movement. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing. Ehhh. I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included. I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country. Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers. Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - jason - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing. Isn't just about everyone who rises to that level of power sorta a dick though? I personally don't know of any benevolent generals. Killing and inflicting damage is kind of their thing. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 10:44 PM)jason Wrote: Isn't just about everyone who rises to that level of power sorta a dick though? I personally don't know of any benevolent generals. Killing and inflicting damage is kind of their thing. Patton was certainly no angel, and he was definitely our best general of WW2. He's the only one the Germans had legit respect for. Although I give Eisenhower a lot of respect for being able to hold together that coalition of disparate personalities and goals. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - BmorePat87 - 07-28-2020 (07-28-2020, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ehhh. I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included. I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country. Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers. Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that. Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - NATI BENGALS - 07-29-2020 (07-28-2020, 08:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I admit nothing. hmmm. I feel like without twitter or fb fact checkers allowing this post to stay and be real I don't know if I can believe it. Some of my southern friends say Lee was basically jesus, hence the idolization. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Belsnickel - 07-29-2020 (07-28-2020, 09:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ehhh. I'll admit to not knowing a ton about him, all of that included. I love studying history, but I've never been that into the history of my own country. Prior to watching the John Adams HBO series I didn't have much interest in really studying the Revolution or the Framers. Although i will admit that Christopher Hitchens got me interested their writings and those of Thomas Paine prior to that. Which is fair. I've lived all but the first year of my life in Virginia. Specifically, I live in the Shenandoah Valley which was not only the "Breadbasket of the Confederacy," it was home to much of the fighting during the Civil War. I'm quite literally sitting on a Civil War battlefield, right now. Suffice it to say, that era of history is very important to this area. East of here, there is more focus on the Revolutionary War because most of that took place over there, but we do have some of that here, too. Like I can tell you where Washington had chosen to make his last stand if it came to it because I fish in that area a lot. So yeah, colonial history through the Civil War is huge around these parts. (07-29-2020, 02:53 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: hmmm. I feel like without twitter or fb fact checkers allowing this post to stay and be real I don't know if I can believe it. Well, this southern friend is here to give the facts. In all seriousness, there is a quote from a letter Lee wrote that people use to say he was anti-slavery. In the letter he calls slavery a necessary evil, so people cling to that to say he begrudgingly owned slaves and what not. However, the context of the letter is that he said slavery was bad for white people. He goes on in that letter to explain that the black race is better off enslaved. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-29-2020 (07-28-2020, 11:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. I'll check that out. Always looking for something new to watch. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - michaelsean - 07-29-2020 (07-28-2020, 11:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Speaking of revolutionary era TV shows, I just started Turn today and it's really good. I need to re-watch John Adams. I've been on a Revolutionary War kick. Watched Hamilton (good music, bad history) and the Patriot (bad history, fun action) recently. I liked it. (Turn) Thought it got a little weak at the end, but all in all it was pretty good. Arnold is even a somewhat sympathetic character. RE: Senate clears bill removing Confederate names from military bases - BmorePat87 - 07-29-2020 (07-29-2020, 01:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I liked it. (Turn) Thought it got a little weak at the end, but all in all it was pretty good. Arnold is even a somewhat sympathetic character. I'm 7 episodes in. Impressive 1st season |