At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America (/Thread-At-Homeland-Security-I-saw-firsthand-how-dangerous-Trump-is-for-America) Pages:
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At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Belsnickel - 08-18-2020 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/at-homeland-security-i-saw-firsthand-how-dangerous-trump-is-for-america/2020/08/17/f10bb92e-e0a3-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html Quote:Miles Taylor served at the Department of Homeland Security from 2017 to 2019, including as chief of staff. It's almost as if a self-absorbed person with no prior experience in government doesn't make a good political leader. Who could have predicted such a thing? RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Belsnickel - 08-18-2020
RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Belsnickel - 08-18-2020
RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-18-2020 (08-18-2020, 02:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/at-homeland-security-i-saw-firsthand-how-dangerous-trump-is-for-america/2020/08/17/f10bb92e-e0a3-11ea-b69b-64f7b0477ed4_story.html Well the bolded gives me some insight into the genesis of the child separation policy. The rest tallies with what other inside observers have said regarding Trump's indiscipline, lack of focus, and impulsive judgment. Still, the people who might be profitably reached by this argument are unlikely to read it, avoiding all that reeks of "Trump hate." The problem with this country is not really Trump but the millions who continue to share his lack of empathy for others' suffering and contempt for democratic norms and evidence-based arguments. That, and not any special skill on his part, is why he can be voted into office and mount a credible challenge to a decent and competent candidate. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - jason - 08-18-2020 Paint the wall... Paint the wall... RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - BmorePat87 - 08-19-2020 (08-18-2020, 03:48 PM)Dill Wrote: The problem with this country is not really Trump but the millions who continue to share his lack of empathy for others' suffering and contempt for democratic norms and evidence-based arguments. That, and not any special skill on his part, is why he can be voted into office and mount a credible challenge to a decent and competent candidate. :andy: Trump's the product of them, not the cause of them. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-19-2020 (08-18-2020, 03:48 PM)Dill Wrote: The problem with this country is not really Trump but the millions who continue to share his lack of empathy for others' suffering and contempt for democratic norms and evidence-based arguments. That, and not any special skill on his part, is why he can be voted into office and mount a credible challenge to a decent and competent candidate. Ahh, the "my opponents are stupid" position. I wonder if you know how much this type of attitude actually fuels what you purport to lament. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - BmorePat87 - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 12:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahh, the "my opponents are stupid" position. I wonder if you know how much this type of attitude actually fuels what you purport to lament. I don't think he suggested that. You can't credibly claim that droves of Trump supporters do not dismiss facts for the lies he tells. An AP poll found that 40% of Republicans have a "great deal of trust" in his words, the same percentage of Republicans who believe scientists if they state something as fact. 72% of Democrats believe scientists in those situations. It's a sad state of affairs when we have to treat outright fabrications as reasonable opinions because it might "fuel" the continued spread of falsehoods, especially now that we're going to be seeing some QAnon proponents, endorsed by Trump, enter Congress after winning their primaries in strong red districts. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 12:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahh, the "my opponents are stupid" position. I wonder if you know how much this type of attitude actually fuels what you purport to lament. Well, former crack addict and MyPillow CEO is advising Trump on an unproven Covid 19 cure (he coincidentally stands to profit from) so . . . RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 12:52 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't think he suggested that. You can't credibly claim that droves of Trump supporters do not dismiss facts for the lies he tells. I don't disagree with this assessment, and I certainly lament the lack of reliance on science (although I will say the same lack of reliance on science is on display in the anti-vaxer and other movements). What I am pointing out is that you convince no one and you win over zero people by labeling them as clueless rubes as certain posters here consistently do. In fact, such tactics almost always solidify these positions for those who feel they are under attack and make them even more rigid. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:00 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Well, former crack addict and MyPillow CEO is advising Trump on an unproven Covid 19 cure (he coincidentally stands to profit from) so . . . C'mon, who doesn't love crack? RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - BmorePat87 - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:03 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't disagree with this assessment, and I certainly lament the lack of reliance on science (although I will say the same lack of reliance on science is on display in the anti-vaxer and other movements). What I am pointing out is that you convince no one and you win over zero people by labeling them as clueless rubes as certain posters here consistently do. In fact, such tactics almost always solidify these positions for those who feel they are under attack and make them even more rigid. I assumed the nearly 30% of Democrats fell into the anti-vaxxer related umbrella. I don't think Dill is directly speaking to any of the 40% who trust Trump, but you are right that speaking down will cause them to be more entrenched. As a species, we're more likely to select "facts" to confirm our world view than shift the world view. We can hope to educate the next generation of people. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:03 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't disagree with this assessment, and I certainly lament the lack of reliance on science (although I will say the same lack of reliance on science is on display in the anti-vaxer and other movements). What I am pointing out is that you convince no one and you win over zero people by labeling them as clueless rubes as certain posters here consistently do. In fact, such tactics almost always solidify these positions for those who feel they are under attack and make them even more rigid. Who labeled anyone a "clueless rube"? Or called anyone "stupid"? As certainly posters here consistently do indeed. I'd say you "convince no one and win over zero people" by inserting your brand of personal attack language into a description which deliberately eschews such. What I am pointing out is that you cannot address "lack of reliance on science" and contempt for democratic norms unless you can also identify and discuss them. Substituting "stupid" and "clueless" for my language just disrupts that discussion without identifying/pointing out anything. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:21 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I assumed the nearly 30% of Democrats fell into the anti-vaxxer related umbrella. It's about 7% if we're talking about the Coronavirus. https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-nearly-three-times-more-likely-democrats-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-1502176 RE the 40%. Yes. I noted that people who might benefit from reading Bels' article are unlikely to read it, in part because of mass defensive strategies like the "Trump hate" ploy. I've never really assumed that the Trump base would respond to gentle reasoning. I think that the kinds of institutions which create "alternative facts" and then enable them to circulate unchallenged inside their bubble of mutual confirmation have to be addressed, in part by describing what they do in venues where it will escape the bubble. Which institutions those are and how they operate requires some identification and labeling, and public discussion that needn't be in secret, or warm fuzzied to the point of in-description. And it needn't involve calling people "liars" or "hypocrites" or "stupid" or "rubes." That's part of what moves belief around the bubble. For people like yourself, on the front lines of teaching, there is the chance to lay down some basics, at least, especially what constitutes evidence-based discourse and logical consistency--and what does not. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:37 AM)Dill Wrote: Who labeled anyone a "clueless rube"? Or called anyone "stupid"? As certainly posters here consistently do indeed. I'd say you do, consistently. You just don't see it. Quote:I'd say you "convince no one and win over zero people" by inserting your brand of personal attack language into a description which deliberately eschews such. I certainly don't convince you, for reasons already stated. But you're not indicative of most people from my experience. Quote:What I am pointing out is that you cannot address "lack of reliance on science" and contempt for democratic norms unless you can also identify and discuss them. No, you point these out to your personal standard of proof, which is hopelessly biased. Quote:Substituting "stupid" and "clueless" for my language just disrupts that discussion without identifying/pointing out anything. It doesn't, except for you. You can obfuscate as much as you like. Unfortunately for you said tactics only prove my point. But you've once again made this about you, which it is not. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 01:00 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Well, former crack addict and MyPillow CEO is advising Trump on an unproven Covid 19 cure (he coincidentally stands to profit from) so . . . Cooper debates Lindell. Looks like tie to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spouhfBiQjs RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - CarolinaBengalFanGuy - 08-19-2020 This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valourous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 02:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'd say you do, consistently. You just don't see it. Lol NO ONE can see it. That's why you have to substitute your words for mine, then complain about my bias towards proof, and then say I made it about me. Maybe get back to the DHS official's critique of Trump now? RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 02:38 AM)Dill Wrote: Lol NO ONE can see it. Why, after I point out that this has become a personal back a forth, against the terms of service, would you continue to persist? Stop with your "lol" responses (pure cringe btw) and just cease, as requested. RE: At Homeland Security, I saw firsthand how dangerous Trump is for America - Dill - 08-19-2020 (08-19-2020, 02:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Why, after I point out that this has become a personal back a forth, against the terms of service, would you continue to persist? Stop with your "lol" responses (pure cringe btw) and just cease, as requested. Ahem! (08-19-2020, 02:38 AM)Dill Wrote: That's why you have to substitute your words for mine, |