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Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Au165 - 10-14-2020

This is a tax statement in Australia that shows you exactly where your taxes went to (Found on Reddit). I feel like this kind of transparency here would potentially change the way a lot of people view their elected officials. We get told that our tax money is going to this or that, but this kind of breakdown putting it in more personal terms I think would help people understand better how their officials are spending their money. 

I wonder how many people would shit a brick when they saw how much of their money is going to the military versus other items?


[Image: 9xwqdq5FSYlg5aw4Z_TP4uiL2iUVNAWMWa_0m770...2c1837290c]

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Belsnickel - 10-14-2020

While this is an interesting idea, I don't know how well it would work out in the hyper-individualistic culture we have in the US. Also, the way this information could be presented could change how it looks. Different administrations could do different things with the categories to really change the way it is presented. It's a good idea in theory, but it would be just another political cluster.

I really have become so cynical. lol

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Au165 - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 09:29 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: While this is an interesting idea, I don't know how well it would work out in the hyper-individualistic culture we have in the US. Also, the way this information could be presented could change how it looks. Different administrations could do different things with the categories to really change the way it is presented. It's a good idea in theory, but it would be just another political cluster.

I really have become so cynical. lol

I am not sure even the most hyper-individualistic person wouldn't want to see how their tax money was being spent. On either side of the aisle, they would want to see how "the other guy" was wasting their money. You'd definitely have to put into the law the exact format for displaying the information as to not allow for any varying interpretations.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - michaelsean - 10-14-2020

Can’t you just look at the percentages the US spends the tax money and do a little math with your tax payment?

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Au165 - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:05 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Can’t you just look at the percentages the US spends the tax money and do a little math with your tax payment?

You could do a lot of things, you could also do some math and know your amortization schedule for your mortgage but instead, they have to give it to you upfront. Transparency is about making it so people don't have to go digging through the internet and piecing together how they think their money is being spent and straight-up show them. A more informed citizen is a good thing for the country.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Belsnickel - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:05 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Can’t you just look at the percentages the US spends the tax money and do a little math with your tax payment?

lol, you think the general public could do that.

In all seriousness, there is no good source for really seeing all of the information on revenues and expenditures in a way that the average citizen could do this math themselves. The different revenue streams, the different expenditure classifications, what is paid from what sort of fund, etc. Governmental accounting is a whole different beast. Most accountants maybe get one class on the topic and then never think about it again unless they work in a government setting.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Nately120 - 10-14-2020

The Aussies spend more on welfare than defense? You guys must get invaded constantly!

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - michaelsean - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The Aussies spend more on welfare than defense?  You guys must get invaded constantly!

You have to have something somebody wants.
But look at the health thing. I say go for universal health, but I'm not sure everyone understands it's not just the 1% who are going to be paying for it. Probably still be cheaper than paying your share of the premium depending, but it's going to take a bite.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Belsnickel - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The Aussies spend more on welfare than defense? You guys must get invaded constantly!

This is where the data visualization can be massaged in a way to make things look different than reality. When looking at military spending in the US, if you compare it to the overall federal budget for FY2021, military spending is ~$636 billion compared to an overall budget of ~$4.829 trillion. However, the mandatory expenditures (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) come in around $2.966 trillion, with the largest chunk, SS, being paid entirely by payroll taxes, and some of Medicare and all of Medicaid coming from the general fund. Those are entitlement programs that must be paid out (hence the term "entitlement").

Discretionary spending is about $1.485 trillion, which is there the DoD figure of $636 billion comes in. It is the single largest item on the discretionary budget, and if you add to it the VA with another $105 billion, you can see how much of the budget that is actually messed around with by the government goes to the military.

This is all based on the budget sent to Congress in February, mind you, and doesn't reflect actual numbers.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - fredtoast - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You have to have something somebody wants.  
But look at the health thing.  I say go for universal health, but I'm not sure everyone understands it's not just the 1% who are going to be paying for it.  Probably still be cheaper than paying your share of the premium depending, but it's going to take a bite.


If you eliminate the multi-billion dollar profits from "health insurance" the cost of actual "health care" would be easily manageable. I don't know the exact numbers but a major portion of the cost of "health care" in America is actually for "health insurance" which does absolutely nothing to improve your health.

But that is also the reason even Obama did not try to pass universal health care.  It would eliminate a multi-billion dollar industry from our economy.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Belsnickel - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 11:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But that is also the reason even Obama did not try to pass universal health care.  It would eliminate a multi-billion dollar industry from our economy.

All because liberals are still capitalists and seek to perpetually increase the economy and are scared to take actions that will make it take a step back.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - fredtoast - 10-14-2020

I agree with Bels, that the presentation would be fraught with the problems of political influence, but I think it would be worth a try. They would just have to argue and hammer out a basic format then agree not to change the it every time a different party took control.

Some of the things that make it tricky.

--A lot of "foreign aid" is actually a form of "military spending".

--There is a difference between the Social Security benefits I have paid for all my life and "welfare", but the line can be murky.

--Through some sort of accounting magic the Federal Reserve actually gives the federal government back the interest it pays on the Federal deficit.

But overall I think it would be an valuable way to educate even the lesser educated on how the government spends their money.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - fredtoast - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: All because liberals are still capitalists and seek to perpetually increase the economy and are scared to take actions that will make it take a step back.


Exactly.

Same thing with military spending.  A large portion of it goes to profits for private companies to develop and build our weapons.  If we make drastic cuts in military spending it will damage the economy.  Instead we would just have to increase government spending someplace else.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - bfine32 - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You have to have something somebody wants.  

Don't they make those tasty little wennies in their capital?

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - michaelsean - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 11:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't they make those tasty little wennies in their capital?

Good point. Forgot about those.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Yojimbo - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You have to have something somebody wants.
But look at the health thing. I say go for universal health, but I'm not sure everyone understands it's not just the 1% who are going to be paying for it. Probably still be cheaper than paying your share of the premium depending, but it's going to take a bite.

You don’t think Australia is loaded with natural resources? Oil, precious metals and gems? Not to mention strategic placement and defense capability being an “island”.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Benton - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 09:29 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: While this is an interesting idea, I don't know how well it would work out in the hyper-individualistic culture we have in the US. Also, the way this information could be presented could change how it looks. Different administrations could do different things with the categories to really change the way it is presented. It's a good idea in theory, but it would be just another political cluster.

I really have become so cynical. lol

There's steps that can be taken to circumvent a lot of meddling. Nothing is 100% safe, but leave those categories up to a bi-partisan group. Sure, they'll still screw around with it, but they'll have to work together to screw around with it.

And that... is progress.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - Yojimbo - 10-14-2020

I’d like an a la carte tax system. *Spoiler* none of my taxes would go to lifetime healthcare and pensions for politicians.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - TheLeonardLeap - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 10:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The Aussies spend more on welfare than defense?  You guys must get invaded constantly!

I know this was a sarcastic comment, but...

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/us-military-presence-in-northern-australia-will-grow-former-defense-official-says-1.603959

...it also helps control costs that they have zero land borders to defend. Plus the closest large countries to them are India (~5,000 miles away) and China (~4,600 miles away).  To put that in context, Germany is ~3,850 miles away from NYC.

RE: Interesting Tax Idea From Australia - TheLeonardLeap - 10-14-2020

(10-14-2020, 09:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: I wonder how many people would shit a brick when they saw how much of their money is going to the military versus other items?

Probably less than if the US tried to pull troops out of other countries, bringing half of them home...














There's very very very little I actually like about this Trump presidency, but at least our troops are starting to flow in the right direction of coming back home, where they belong, not overseas doing other countries jobs for them and fighting in countries that don't want us there.


Also shocked at the resistance to the idea of getting the F out of Afghanistan after being there for 19 years.