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+--- Thread: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats (/Thread-Voter-fraud-does-not-benefit-Democrats)
Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - fredtoast - 11-12-2020
The right wing media has been going crazy over the number of dead people who voted, and numerous other cases of individual voter fraud. And they keep saying that voter fraud helps Democrats. But this just is not true. Just notice that every time the list dead people who voted they never mention who they voted for.
Every year there have been cases of individual voter fraud, and just as many have been Republican as Democrat. Cases of large scale voter fraud are much more rare, but the most famous recent one was the Republicans attempt to rig the election in the 9th congressional district of North Carolina in 2018.
What has been proven, and admitted by Republicans, is that suppressing the vote by making it harder to vote benefits Republicans. So all this squealing and crying from the right-wing media right now about "voter fraud" is not really about "voter fraud". Instead it is about voter suppression. They do not really care about limiting fraud because it helps them as much a sit does the Democrats. All they really care about is suppressing the legitimate votes of the poor because that really does help them.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Goalpost - 11-12-2020
My opinion on this is that Biden won. However this was an unusual election with a large percentage of mail in voting. I don't want endless recounting but to double check things is OK with me.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - JS-Steelerfan - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:01 AM)Goalpost Wrote: My opinion on this is that Biden won. However this was an unusual election with a large percentage of mail in voting. I don't want endless recounting but to double check things is OK with me.
Double checking is one thing. But the Trump campaign is attempting to instill distrust in the system by alleging unsubstantiated claims of widespread fraud, and that’s a whole other thing.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Au165 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:01 AM)Goalpost Wrote: My opinion on this is that Biden won. However this was an unusual election with a large percentage of mail in voting. I don't want endless recounting but to double check things is OK with me.
Colorado has been mail-in voting only for 7 years and a study by the American Statistical Association showed no increase in voter fraud for mail-in voting states like Colorado versus states where it occurs in person. Voter fraud is insanely rare and is a boogeyman that people use to try to create distrust in the system, multiple studies have shown it just simply does not happen at any alarming scale EVER. The only reason people think there potentially could be fraud with mail-in voting is that the GOP has tried to frame it that way without any actual proof. Mail-in voting DOES increase voter turnout which is, and has always, working against the GOP which is why they have tried to demonize the practice.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - JS-Steelerfan - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Colorado has been mail-in voting only for 7 years and a study by the American Statistical Association showed no increase in voter fraud for mail-in voting states like Colorado versus states where it occurs in person. Voter fraud is insanely rare and is a boogeyman that people use to try to create distrust in the system, multiple studies have shown it just simply does not happen at any alarming scale EVER. The only reason people think there potentially could be fraud with mail-in voting is that the GOP has tried to frame it that way without any actual proof. Mail-in voting DOES increase voter turnout which is, and has always, working against the GOP which is why they have tried to demonize the practice.
Honestly, I don’t understand why people keep responding to the cries of wolf.
Obama’s not a citizen! Nothing happened.
Hillary’s a crook and we’ll lock her up! Nothing happened.
Millions of illegal immigrants voted in 2016! Nothing happened.
Obama illegally spied on my campaign! Nothing happened.
If I didnt believe it before, I believe it now: gaslighting is a very powerful phenomenon.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Nately120 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:11 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Double checking is one thing. But the Trump campaign is attempting to instill distrust in the system by alleging unsubstantiated claims of widespread fraud, and that’s a whole other thing.
Yep. The Trump team found an area where democrats have an advantage and they're trying to claim it is unfair. It would be like Peyton Manning and the Colts petitioning the NFL to not allow special teams for the 2006 SB because Devin Hester was the only offensive weapon the Bears had...or something.
Or it would be like the Biden team claiming all in person voting machines were rigged and only paper mail in ballots should count. That's a more logical comparison.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - CKwi88 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:41 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Honestly, I don’t understand why people keep responding to the cries of wolf.
Obama’s not a citizen! Nothing happened.
Hillary’s a crook and we’ll lock her up! Nothing happened.
Millions of illegal immigrants voted in 2016! Nothing happened.
Obama illegally spied on my campaign! Nothing happened.
If I didnt believe it before, I believe it now: gaslighting is a very powerful phenomenon.
While it is certainly not new to politics, I do wonder if we've ever seen it so weaponized like it has been by the GOP in the era of the Internet and social media.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - bfine32 - 11-12-2020
Voter fraud should not be a partisan issue.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - bfine32 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 11:41 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Honestly, I don’t understand why people keep responding to the cries of wolf.
Obama’s not a citizen! Nothing happened.
Hillary’s a crook and we’ll lock her up! Nothing happened.
Millions of illegal immigrants voted in 2016! Nothing happened.
Obama illegally spied on my campaign! Nothing happened.
If I didnt believe it before, I believe it now: gaslighting is a very powerful phenomenon.
Don't forget he colluded with Russia
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - fredtoast - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't forget he colluded with Russia
That is a little different. In that case there was a lot of evidence to support the claim and initiate an investigation. The foreign policy advisor for his campaign really did say that the Russians were going to supply them with information to use against Hillary. High level members of his campaign really did meet with a former Russian intelligence agent at Trump Tower and then lie their asses off about it
That is much different from the birthers and the claims that millions of illegal immigrants voted for Hillary in the 2016 election. Those were just total fabrications.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - fredtoast - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Voter fraud should not be a partisan issue.
It isn't. Bot sides oppose it.
The problem is that Republicans favor voter suppression and try to cloak the argument as opposing voter fraud.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Nately120 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Voter fraud should not be a partisan issue.
This time it was more than a partisan issue, it was a primary strategy. Trump claimed mail in voting was ultra-fraudulent and then told his supporters to NOT use mail in voting. I'm not sure if he just wanted to make it clear he was 100% against it, or he sincerely thought he could get enough mail in votes invalidated to swing things in his favor. It would seem unlikely the USA would condone mail in voting and then after election day some 100 million votes would be thrown out once the chance to vote in person had passed...but who knows.
I don't even think we can apply normal voter fraud over the years to this situation because crying fraud was a primary strategy of one of the major parties...this is just way too off the path to try to view with a statistical or historical lense, isn't it?
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Au165 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This time it was more than a partisan issue, it was a primary strategy. Trump claimed mail in voting was ultra-fraudulent and then told his supporters to NOT use mail in voting. I'm not sure if he just wanted to make it clear he was 100% against it, or he sincerely thought he could get enough mail in votes invalidated to swing things in his favor. It would seem unlikely the USA would condone mail in voting and then after election day some 100 million votes would be thrown out once the chance to vote in person had passed...but who knows.
I don't even think we can apply normal voter fraud over the years to this situation because crying fraud was a primary strategy of one of the major parties...this is just way too off the path to try to view with a statistical or historical lense, isn't it?
...but he wasn't against it he and his kids used it to vote.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - GMDino - 11-12-2020
The GOP doesn't consider it "fraud"...they will present it as making it "more fair" for voters even as they disenfranchise vast swathes of voters. Their new mantra seems to be that voting shouldn't be "easy" for some reason.
I'm just happy to see people who didn't care about the election, who don't want to defend Trump and who are just happy that the Republicans didn't lose the Senate still defending Trump as if they cared about the election. It brings a smile to my face to see a little normalcy around here.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Nately120 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...but he wasn't against it he and his kids used it to vote.
Well as corrupt as mail in voting is, those damn machines you use to vote in person could probably change a Trump vote to Biden even quicker because there is no paper trail at all. I guess our voting system is like our money...in itself it is worthless and it is only valued because we as a people are willing to put trust in our government.
I'd say the government is doing its best to make sure we don't trust in anything...nice. The day of the ultra-cynic is upon us.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - GMDino - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...but he wasn't against it he and his kids used it to vote.
I've said before that in 2016 social media was littered with Trump supporters who INSISTED they use paper ballots so those Soros-funded electronic machines wouldn't cheat them!
2020 rolls around and you can't trust those paper ballots!
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - JS-Steelerfan - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Voter fraud should not be a partisan issue.
It should not be a partisan issue. But it becomes one when one side alleges that it is widespread but produces little to no substantial evidence.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Nately120 - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 01:45 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: It should not be a partisan issue. But it becomes one when one side alleges that it is widespread but produces little to no substantial evidence.
Saying the other side is cheating is nothing new in politics (or anything) but seeing Trump claim fraud on the 2016 primaries, the 2016 election, the 2018 midterm and THEN seeing him pre-emptively declare fraud on the 2020 election was just too damn much. Crying foul shouldn't be your primary plan of action, should it? Trump just keeps defying the norms and rules and it's getting less and less endearing and it's becoming more and more clear that this sort of thing isn't going to benefit anyone but him.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - Belsnickel - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 01:45 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: It should not be a partisan issue. But it becomes one when one side alleges that it is widespread but produces little to no substantial evidence.
Yeah, that's the big problem right now. It also didn't just start this year. The GOP has been using allegations of voter fraud with little to no evidence for years to try to substantiate efforts that result in voter suppression. That's what has made the issue of voter fraud a partisan one.
RE: Voter fraud does not benefit Democrats - JS-Steelerfan - 11-12-2020
(11-12-2020, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is a little different. In that case there was a lot of evidence to support the claim and initiate an investigation. The foreign policy advisor for his campaign really did say that the Russians were going to supply them with information to use against Hillary. High level members of his campaign really did meet with a former Russian intelligence agent at Trump Tower and then lie their asses off about it
That is much different from the birthers and the claims that millions of illegal immigrants voted for Hillary in the 2016 election. Those were just total fabrications.
I don’t really understand why both the media AND Trump insisted on constantly focusing on collusion. The initiating factor of the investigation was not collusion, but well-documented Russian interference. Yet, Trump consistently attempted to debunk the WHOLE investigation as a witch hunt hoax based on the claim that HE was innocent, completely dismissing the reality of the Russian interference in the process. Somehow, it’s always about him.