Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Cincinnati-Bengals-NFL) +--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-JUNGLE-NOISE) +--- Thread: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions (/Thread-Make-Your-2021-Early-Season-Predictions) |
RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Synric - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 01:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They both owe me. They (the Bengals) were heavily involved in that entire process and helped shape public opinion. They also hired the county commissioner (Bob Beddinghaus) who spearheaded the entire campaign on the county side (shady AF). If this is true why would any state or county use tax payer money to help build stadiums? Almost all NFL stadiums are built and run with tax payer dollars. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - bfine32 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:13 PM)Synric Wrote: If this is true why would any state or county use tax payer money to help build stadiums? Almost all NFL stadiums are built and run with tax payer dollars. I guarantee there is a great many cities that would like to have an NFL team. The idea that the Bengals owe the citizens of Hamilton County is just silly. Are there folks that actually think if Hamilton County chooses not to assist the Bengals with tax payer money the Bengals couldn't find another home? RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - GodFather - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 12:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The citizens of Hamilton County voted for the sales tax, not the Bengals. But the Bengals promised a winning team in return. They did not deliver to this day. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Wes Mantooth - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:13 PM)Synric Wrote: If this is true why would any state or county use tax payer money to help build stadiums? Almost all NFL stadiums are built and run with tax payer dollars. https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/ https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/ https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/economic-benefits-nfl-stadium-boom-vastly-overblown-131446171.html https://huddleup.substack.com/p/how-the-nfl-is-scamming-taxpayers https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/sports-stadiums-can-be-bad-cities/576334/ https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/public-money-used-build-sports-stadiums RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Wes Mantooth - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are there folks that actually think if Hamilton County chooses not to assist the Bengals with tax payer money the Bengals couldn't find another home? Did anyone say they couldn't? I don't remember that argument being made. It's besides the point. I can assure you, if the Bengals did find another home, and used 100% public funding to finance their stadium, those fans would have expectations for their investment too. If you're going to use tax pay dollar to subsidize your mult-Billion dollar company you better believe you owe your fans and the tax payers. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - bfine32 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:21 PM)GodFather Wrote: But the Bengals promised a winning team in return. They did not deliver to this day. I don't see that in the lease summary: Quote:LEASE SUMMARY RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - bfine32 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did anyone say they couldn't? I don't remember that argument being made. It's besides the point. I get it, you feel you are "owed" more; but the simple fact is you are not. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Synric - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:28 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/ It's funny alot of those articles mention the Rams moving didnt kill the economy of St. Louis but none of them mention that St. Louis has become one of the fastest declining population. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Wes Mantooth - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get it, you feel you are "owed" more; but the simple fact is you are not. If you're talking legally, then you're correct. They legally owe the fans nothing, apart from fielding a team. But ethically? Well, that's a different story. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - GodFather - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see that in the lease summary: You left this part out Bengals promise to match tax payers money with putting the resources and work in to produce a winning franchise for Hamilton Country and the state of Ohio and not into Mike Browns bank account. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Shake n Blake - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 11:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: True, It just seems many look for the dark cloud in front of the silver lining in every situation. Not every situation. Everyone on here has positive and negative views on certain things surrounding the team. I've been accused of being a homer countless times through the years, when I have a sunny take on something. Some of us are just much more up front and bold with our stances when we see something wrong, and those people tend to get slapped with the hater label or something akin to that. I don't understand the "pretend everything is fine" side, myself. I'm more of an "identify the problem and talk about how to solve it" kind of person, myself...even if there's really not much we can do as fans...but isn't that true of everything we discuss on here? We have no impact on the draft, free agency, what player needs more PT, etc, but we discuss those things anyway. Anyways...I do respect that not everyone thinks like I do, and there's a different type of fan on here. I don't agree with the everything is gonna be fine crowd, but I'm also not going to call them out and question their fandom. Which has constantly happened to the "haters" on this board during my 10 years. Thankfully it's not as bad as the "hater vs homer" Denny days, but it still bubbles to the surface from time to time. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Murdock2420 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:13 PM)Synric Wrote: If this is true why would any state or county use tax payer money to help build stadiums? Almost all NFL stadiums are built and run with tax payer dollars. Actually there are a good amount (13 NFL Teams) that are split costs. The Bengals paid less for their new stadium then any other NFL franchise except Tampa who got their stadium 100% privately funded versus the Bengals getting 94% public funds. Meanwhile: 49ers took the hit for 88% Giants and Jets took the hit for 100% Cowboys picked up 63% Eagles 64% Pats 83% Lions 75% Redskins 72% https://web.archive.org/web/20190405090648/https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/nfl-funding-summary-12-2-11.pdf This shows the breakdown of private versus public funds for new stadiums since 1997 but only goes to 2014 as it lists Levi's Stadium as being proposed. Since then you can add: Rams and their 100% privately funded stadium Chargers playing in the Rams stadium Raiders and the financing for the project came in the form of $750 million in public funding and $1.1 billion from the Raiders. Vikings new stadium. The project is projected to have a $975 million price tag, with the Vikings covering $477 million, the state covering $348 million, and $150 million covered by a hospitality tax in Minneapolis. The Falcons new stadium which I don't have exact numbers but the Falcons certainly footed a portion of the bill. What really makes the deal even worse in Cincinnati though is the Bengals having control over what the stadium can be used for outside of football season versus other stadiums where concerts and other events take place and allow more revenue to help compensate the loss in tax-payer money. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Murdock2420 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't see that in the lease summary: "It's garden-variety contract law," said Portune, adding that promises made in contracts are "not limited to the four corners of the document" but also include "representations of people in authority" during the negotiating process. Portune argued the Bengals owner repeatedly told the county and others that the team needed its lease to be competitive. Taxpayers did their part, Portune argued, but Mike Brown has not. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2002/12/09/story2.html There are several more articles out there just a Google search away, that express that Mike Brown told the County "Hey, we need a new stadium to be competitive. We get a new stadium and we'll be competitive." 0 playoff wins since the stadium was built with 94% private funds. The Bengals 100% owe the taxpayers of Hamilton County more then they have given them at this point. They continue to hold the longest play-off drought in NFL history. There is no possible way anyone, even Fred, can spin the longest drought in NFL history as being "competitive". RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - bfine32 - 05-23-2021 (05-23-2021, 10:41 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: "It's garden-variety contract law," said Portune, adding that promises made in contracts are "not limited to the four corners of the document" but also include "representations of people in authority" during the negotiating process. Portune argued the Bengals owner repeatedly told the county and others that the team needed its lease to be competitive. Taxpayers did their part, Portune argued, but Mike Brown has not. I do recall talks of competitive; although they were not part of the contract. You said "winning" What exactly do they owe you? RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Murdock2420 - 05-24-2021 (05-23-2021, 11:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do recall talks of competitive; although they were not part of the contract. You said "winning" An attempt to be a competitive franchise is what they owe everyone who had to pay an increased tax so that penny pinching crook can sit around and count money. That, or a check to refund the extra money spent on taxes for the b.s. Brown fed everyone. If you ordered something from Amazon, and it wasn't what it was supposed to be in the description and picture, would you just keep it, or send it back for the right item or a refund? The Bengals have been a defective Amazon product since they threatened to leave and forced the county to build PBS in 1998. No refund? Fine then give us the product we were promised when we voted. A real attempt at being competitive. That attempt means: Hire a front office staff (not friends and family real football people) and show the tax-payers that they have literally fleeced for years that they are going to make a real effort to have a successful franchise. Stop being the doormat of your biggest rivals. (The Steelers absolutely have owned the Bengals since PBS opened). No one can consider what they have done since Mike Brown took over in 1991 competitive. You can't even call what they have done since Paul Brown Stadium opened competitive. Sure, they've made 7 playoff appearances, but zero success to show for it, not a single damn win. Plus, 7 trips to the playoffs over a 21 season span really doesn't show much. 11 losing season. 3 .500 seasons. Is that competitive to you? If so your bar for success and competitive is much lower then mine. Good news is this, the lease runs out soon and with the B.S. performance they've done since PBS opened there has to be a very real chance that they don't get any more money from taxpayers nor should they. Start winning meaningful games and show competitiveness like New England, Green Bay, Seattle, Pitt, Kansas City, etc, teams that work the cap and have scouts and GMs. So what do they owe me you ask, well let me get my receipts together and compile every cent of extra tax that I've paid since the stadium was built and either cut me a check for failing to hold up their end of the agreement and refund my money or... hold up your end and make real change. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - sandwedge - 05-24-2021 (05-23-2021, 11:16 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How do the Bengals owe their fans, and specifically the local ones, nothing?Tax payers voted yes on the stadium, end of story. You have no financial investment in the Bengals, they don't owe you nothing. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - sandwedge - 05-24-2021 (05-23-2021, 12:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The citizens of Hamilton County voted for the sales tax, not the Bengals. Bingo! RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - sandwedge - 05-24-2021 (05-23-2021, 02:21 PM)GodFather Wrote: But the Bengals promised a winning team in return. They did not deliver to this day. They have had a number of winning seasons since the stadium was built.... RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - sandwedge - 05-24-2021 (05-24-2021, 01:57 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: An attempt to be a competitive franchise is what they owe everyone who had to pay an increased tax so that penny pinching crook can sit around and count money. That, or a check to refund the extra money spent on taxes for the b.s. Brown fed everyone. If you ordered something from Amazon, and it wasn't what it was supposed to be in the description and picture, would you just keep it, or send it back for the right item or a refund? The Bengals have been a defective Amazon product since they threatened to leave and forced the county to build PBS in 1998.You wouldn't make it in the door of the courthouse. Did you vote yes? If you did, did the Bengals hold a gun to your head to vote yes? It doesn't matter where the bar is set for being competitive. RE: Make Your 2021 Early Season Predictions - Murdock2420 - 05-24-2021 (05-24-2021, 03:26 AM)sandwedge Wrote: You wouldn't make it in the door of the courthouse. Did you vote yes? If you did, did the Bengals hold a gun to your head to vote yes? It doesn't matter where the bar is set for being competitive. I'll never understand "fans" that are just content with mediocrity. |