(05-05-2022, 12:06 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: A lot of good discussions going on here. Let’s not venture off into bat-shittery.

(05-05-2022, 10:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's a false choice. There is no need to give up any of those rights for a better social safety net.

Admittedly, that is my mistake for saying what we need is what exists in other places. However, the fact remains that we could improve the general welfare of our citizenry without giving up those civil liberties.

(05-05-2022, 11:57 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Canada has healthcare and guns and the right to protest and stuff, doesn't it?  Once you get used to 3 down football, I'd say you're set.

(05-05-2022, 12:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I could get used to all of that, even the higher taxes. 
But i still don't like snow.

(05-05-2022, 12:20 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So i was right about your answer??? In the end, you wouldn't give up your right to own guns for your fellow Americans for better healthcare and education. 

I'm very well aware we don't have to give up any other rights, my point is these other countries did and that even though they may be better in one area, they are still far from perfect, JUST LIKE US.

I don't think some of you have really dug in and looked at how those other countries are better in some ways than us.
Some start at earlier ages, some go almost year round, but most don't have a military like ours, their focus is on Education, they have higher tax rates and so on. if you want those things, you have to sacrifice somewhere. it takes money to do these things and last i looked, i didn't have any trees in my back yard.

(05-05-2022, 12:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess the taxes thing could be a bit of a risk vs reward thing.  It's like, well I saved money by living in the USA but I needed to ride in an ambulance once and that pretty much wiped out the difference. 

(05-05-2022, 02:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'll have to see if I can find the study, again, but a few years back I read an analysis that just looked at the return-on-investment the people got in several countries for their taxes. The tl;dr version was that by looking at it in this way, it eliminates the variation caused by tax rates and by doing so, the US was still well below our peer nations in services from our government per dollar spent in taxes.

(05-05-2022, 04:01 PM)basballguy Wrote: I would be interested in seeing that study as it sounds incredibly biased.  Many of our government programs are literally determined by one's tax liability (income) so if you eliminate that variation then of course it would be disproportionate.  

(05-04-2022, 09:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So who gets to decide what to do in cases where you deem it to be justified?

(05-05-2022, 04:15 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Do you think it should be legal in all instances? 

(05-05-2022, 04:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not speaking for the whole of it, but part of my job involves going through medical debt and I can tell a lot of people pay a lot more in that area than they'd pay in taxes if they lived in a place with socialized healthcare.

Studies have claimed over 60% of American bankruptcies involve medical debt, and I'd wager those same people wouldn't be declaring bankruptcy in Canada from their tax rate.  It's a multifaceted issue and all, but I just wanted to toss in my semi educated 2 cents on this.

(05-05-2022, 04:15 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Most abortions are done because people see pregnancy or the child being an inconvenience.

(05-05-2022, 04:27 PM)basballguy Wrote: 60% is due specifically to medical debt or 60% cite a medical reason being the catalyst for it?  Like say I got hit by a car and was in a coma for 3 months so i stopped getting a paycheck and thus my bills piled up.

I ask because when I googled this, the 60% came up citing medical reasons...not actual medical debt.  I also found an article claiming it to be 60% and linking to a study but the study itself said medical debt was the cause 29% of the time.  Though i only googled for about 10min.   

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing about the value here for people (versus other countries)...but that also makes me curious to see the study.  If our govt programs were designed for everyone then it would be a good study.  However, they're not designed for everyone....they're designed for people with specific needs....and for the most part, the people that need these programs the most are low income earners.  

(05-05-2022, 04:34 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Source?

(05-05-2022, 04:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: I doubt there's a source...but.....

in my limited experience with those who got one, it's a rather humiliating experience and I doubt anyone would honestly say "I'm getting this because I don't want to be inconvenienced"

Now helping Brad's argument, he could be arguing about maybe "financial" inconvenience or "relationship" inconvenience...but I don't know.  

(05-05-2022, 04:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: I doubt there's a source...but.....

in my limited experience with those who got one, it's a rather humiliating experience and I doubt anyone would honestly say "I'm getting this because I don't want to be inconvenienced"

(05-05-2022, 04:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The rule o' thumb is to listen to what people say and then realize that everything from war to abortion to religion to sports to promises of "free speech" is all about money.  Why do people do anything?  Money.

(05-05-2022, 04:51 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I do stuff for shits and gigs. Take that monkey wrench and jam it in your theory haha!

(05-05-2022, 04:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I file people like you under "do stuff because of money, but can't or won't admit it."  

We are all such slaves to it that we've convinced ourselves that there is a magical paradise waiting for us when we die that specifically does NOT have money in it.  We're desperately addicted, but we can't stop....it's everything.

(05-05-2022, 04:59 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Bold statement; completely wrong but if you wanna lump individuals into huge groups you do you boo-boo.

I'm not gaining any money arguing with you about why I do the things I do; I'm simply in here for the conversation and to pass time until my next flight of fancy hits me. I'm not walking my dog when I get home because I'm getting paid to do it, I'm doing it to get out of the house and stretch my legs. I'm not playing XBox later to get into a tournament, I'm doing it to chill with friends and shoot aliens. The only thing I do for money is show up to work and give 5% effort on anything on a good day.

But sure, money drives me. Must be why I turned down a job making double what I make now because I'd have to try (and I don't wanna try).