+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: The "Cadillac Tax" (/Thread-The-Cadillac-Tax)
Pages:
1
2
The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-08-2015
Anyone else getting a chuckle from the irony, at the idea that Democrats are now scrambling to get rid of portions of the ACA? I know that I sure am! Remember when Nancy Pelosi told us how great the ACA was going to be, and how it was so full of wonderful things that we needed to pass it, to see what was inside? Lol!! It seems now that two of the largest Democrat contributing bodies are having issue with the so called "Cadillac tax".
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/259429-reid-pelosi-pushing-repeal-of-cadillac-tax
Quote:Powerful labor groups such as the AFL-CIO and the American Federation of Teachers vehemently opposed the Cadillac tax from the start. They say repeal needs to happen soon, before employers begin trimming back healthcare benefits.
I say they made their bed, let them lie in it..
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - StLucieBengal - 11-08-2015
Yup.
Hey we had to pass it before we found out about all this great stuff haha
What a failure of a president.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - JustWinBaby - 11-08-2015
They can just wait for their exchanges to go bankrupt and then they won't have any insurance.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya, that the big unions want someone else to pay for their handout.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - StLucieBengal - 11-08-2015
The teachers union needs busted in the worst way. They are the reason our schools are limited. Let teachers negotiate their own rates.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-08-2015
(11-08-2015, 07:34 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: They can just wait for their exchanges to go bankrupt and then they won't have any insurance.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya, that the big unions want someone else to pay for their handout.
I am fortunate, at I work for a private sector engineering firm, that is a preferred contractor to the NCDOT. My company provides insurance to all of us, at no cost to us. My employer provides the "Cadillac" level plan. It would sadden me, to see them drop our coverage to a lower level, to account for a 40% excise tax, although I believe that most of us would gladly pay the difference in cost to maintain our current level of coverage.
While I enjoy poking fun at the Democrats for pushing the ACA, and now having issue with some of it's contents, this really is an issue for ALL working class Americans to look at. A couple of things ring my bell, on this topic. First of all, why should companies that choose to offer their employees the best of coverage, at already a higher rate than lesser plans, be punished by an extra tax? To me, that is a huge step toward Socialism. As in, either conform or pay the consequences. The second issue that I have is with the passing of bills that have so much shit written into them, that no one really has the time or energy to fully understand them, until after they are passed. The TPP and Iran deal also pop to mind.
I, for one, would be all in favor of a law that limits the size and language of bills to be restricted to the main topic at hand. Yes, the elimination of line items, and limiting the size to what can be read and understood in a reasonable amount of time.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - JustWinBaby - 11-08-2015
(11-08-2015, 07:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: First of all, why should companies that choose to offer their employees the best of coverage, at already a higher rate than lesser plans, be punished by an extra tax? To me, that is a huge step toward Socialism. As in, either conform or pay the consequences. The second issue that I have is with the passing of bills that have so much shit written into them, that no one really has the time or energy to fully understand them, until after they are passed. The TPP and Iran deal also pop to mind.
Agreed. It was rushed so they could get the vote thru because they didn't have ANY bipartisan support.
At the heart of the problem was an attempt to hide the very socialist nature of the policy. By taxing employers, people like you don't really see or "feel" the cost. But, of course, to your employer benefits are still an employee cost. So either the benefit gets reduced, or wage growth will be slower as a result (and healthcare is largely where wage increase have gone, but that's another topic).
But it had to be this way to subsidize people because the "savings" were bullshit - the money had to come from somewhere. And I fully agree this is ridiculous - wages & benefits are "tax deductible" (as expenses) for corporations, but this is essentially a tax what companies pay their workers.
This is how the middle class keeps voting for politicians that bend them over again and again - they're not taxed directly, it "trickles down".
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - bfine32 - 11-08-2015
SCOTUS will go outside of their scope and amend it again
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - StLucieBengal - 11-08-2015
Great why even elect people now. The non elected court can lord over us all.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-09-2015
Health insurance by its very nature is socialism.
How does health insurance work? You get a bunch of people together and buy insurance from a company. The more people who buy insurance the lower the premiums everyone has to pay. So when you get sick you don't have to pay the full amount of the bill.
Health insurance is wealth redistribution. It robs the healthy and redistributes the money to the sick.
You're all a bunch of filthy socialists!
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 09:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Health insurance by its very nature is socialism.
How does health insurance work? You get a bunch of people together and buy insurance from a company. The more people who buy insurance the lower the premiums everyone has to pay. So when you get sick you don't have to pay the full amount of the bill.
Health insurance is wealth redistribution. It robs the healthy and redistributes the money to the sick.
You're all a bunch of filthy socialists!
Great point, about the socialistic nature of Insurance as a thing. However, voluntarily choosing to join a group to share and offset costs with, is much different than the Government mandating that everyone join a group to offset the cost of the bums that won't pay.
In a few years, I should be able to afford to fund my own health savings account, and be eligible to opt out as self-insured. Otherwise, I would like to find one of those cash only, no insurance accepted care provider groups.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - StLucieBengal - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 09:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Health insurance by its very nature is socialism.
How does health insurance work? You get a bunch of people together and buy insurance from a company. The more people who buy insurance the lower the premiums everyone has to pay. So when you get sick you don't have to pay the full amount of the bill.
Health insurance is wealth redistribution. It robs the healthy and redistributes the money to the sick.
You're all a bunch of filthy socialists!
Very true which is why we should just pay out of pocket for everything. Prices would drop and force the medical industry into the free market.
I have been anti insurance for a while now
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 09:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Great point, about the socialistic nature of Insurance as a thing. However, voluntarily choosing to join a group to share and offset costs with, is much different than the Government mandating that everyone join a group to offset the cost of the bums that won't pay.
In a few years, I should be able to afford to fund my own health savings account, and be eligible to opt out as self-insured. Otherwise, I would like to find one of those cash only, no insurance accepted care provider groups.
What group have you been forced into? None.
It is a proven fact the majority of the uninsured are average blue collar middle Americans who work a shitty job for a small company which doesn't provide health insurance to its employees.
When you were a small business owner who was your health insurance provider? Did you have employees? Did you offer health insurance?
If you join one of those cash only groups, what will you do if one of your family members gets seriously ill? Like acute lymphoblastic leukemia which probably won't kill you (unless you don't have the cash to pay for your treatment,) but will probably leave you bankrupt?
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 09:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Very true which is why we should just pay out of pocket for everything. Prices would drop and force the medical industry into the free market.
I have been anti insurance for a while now
Explain how the medical industry isn't part of the free market?
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 10:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What group have you been forced into? None.
It is a proven fact the majority of the uninsured are average blue collar middle Americans who work a shitty job for a small company which doesn't provide health insurance to its employees.
When you were a small business owner who was your health insurance provider? Did you have employees? Did you offer health insurance?
If you join one of those cash only groups, what will you do if one of your family members gets seriously ill? Like acute lymphoblastic leukemia which probably won't kill you (unless you don't have the cash to pay for your treatment,) but will probably leave you bankrupt?
Actually, the ACA mandates that all Americans buy insurance, or face a fine.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 10:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, the ACA mandates that all Americans buy insurance, or face a fine.
You wrote the government mandates you join a group to offset the cost of the bums that don't pay. You aren't a part of one of those groups therefore you haven't been forced to join anything. Additionally, you stated your employer provides health insurance at no cost to you. So you don't even pay for your own insurance.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-09-2015
(11-09-2015, 10:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You wrote the government mandates you join a group to offset the cost of the bums that don't pay. You aren't a part of one of those groups therefore you haven't been forced to join anything. Additionally, you stated your employer provides health insurance at no cost to you. So you don't even pay for your own insurance.
It would cost me plenty, if I were to add my wife. Thankfully, she has insurance through her job, just not as good of coverage as my employer provides. And, actually we DO pay.. With the rise in cost of the policy to my employer, our yearly raises were less than in previous years.
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-10-2015
(11-09-2015, 10:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It would cost me plenty, if I were to add my wife.
That's capitalism for you. Many companies do that hoping you will take your spouses insurance to further reduce their costs.
Quote:Thankfully, she has insurance through her job, just not as good of coverage as my employer provides.
Again, capitalism.
Quote:And, actually we DO pay.. With the rise in cost of the policy to my employer, our yearly raises were less than in previous years.
Really? So that "no cost to us" was just bullshit?
Must be nice working for a government subcontractor suckling from the teat of taxpayer funded corporate welfare. Out of curiosity, how many guys does it take standing around doing nothing to watch one guy lean on a shovel? What was the percent increase in the cost to your employer?
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - Benton - 11-10-2015
(11-08-2015, 07:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The teachers union needs busted in the worst way. They are the reason our schools are limited. Let teachers negotiate their own rates.
Yes... because teacher pay is so outrageous, that's why we can't get any good engineers or doctors... teacher unions are mandating all those obscene teacher salaries. That's the problem with education. Yup.
(11-09-2015, 09:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Very true which is why we should just pay out of pocket for everything. Prices would drop and force the medical industry into the free market.
I have been anti insurance for a while now
Uh... the medical industry is in the free market. That's why you might pay a few hundred times the actual cost of a drug, or several hundred just to see an ER nurse (rates vary, but the average for non-life threatening visits is around $600). The logic here is backwards.
I know I'm wasting my breath, but my wife was an ER director. Their biggest shortfall? The uninsured. They were people who used the ER because a doctor's office wouldn't take them for basic stuff. So they come to an ER and claim they're sicker than they are, then they get in and get the antibiotics or stitches or whatever they really need.
You know who they love? The insured. More than them? Medicaid/Medicare. They pay a smaller percentage than those with private insurance, but there's no hassle over treatment or paperwork.
A big part of healthcare costs going up is to cover the cost of the uninsured who don't pay. You want prices to stabilize, you've got to figure out some way for medical providers to get paid because — contrary to what you're saying — they're in the free market and that's causing them to lose money.
To the OP, meh. The co-op's going broke — by and large — wouldn't have if Republicans hadn't manipulated the reimbursement rates for high risk cases. In Kentucky the co-op was supposed to get back $79 million. It got around $9 million (if I remember right, my numbers may be off by a million or so). It's not that the funds weren't there, Republicans just didn't allow them to be dispersed through the omnibus bill.
Yay politics. Instead of fixing anything let's make the other guys look bad! :snark:
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - SunsetBengal - 11-10-2015
(11-10-2015, 01:28 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's capitalism for you. Many companies do that hoping you will take your spouses insurance to further reduce their costs.
Again, capitalism.
Really? So that "no cost to us" was just bullshit?
Must be nice working for a government subcontractor suckling from the teat of taxpayer funded corporate welfare. Out of curiosity, how many guys does it take standing around doing nothing to watch one guy lean on a shovel? What was the percent increase in the cost to your employer?
Nice job at diverting an argument to a different point. I'm sad that you sucked me in to this endless circular argument. I should have been paying better attention. BTW, what do any of these Q & A's have to do with the "Cadillac" tax, again?
RE: The "Cadillac Tax" - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 11-10-2015
(11-10-2015, 02:12 AM)Benton Wrote: Yes... because teacher pay is so outrageous, that's why we can't get any good engineers or doctors... teacher unions are mandating all those obscene teacher salaries. That's the problem with education. Yup.
Uh... the medical industry is in the free market. That's why you might pay a few hundred times the actual cost of a drug, or several hundred just to see an ER nurse (rates vary, but the average for non-life threatening visits is around $600). The logic here is backwards.
I know I'm wasting my breath, but my wife was an ER director. Their biggest shortfall? The uninsured. They were people who used the ER because a doctor's office wouldn't take them for basic stuff. So they come to an ER and claim they're sicker than they are, then they get in and get the antibiotics or stitches or whatever they really need.
You know who they love? The insured. More than them? Medicaid/Medicare. They pay a smaller percentage than those with private insurance, but there's no hassle over treatment or paperwork.
A big part of healthcare costs going up is to cover the cost of the uninsured who don't pay. You want prices to stabilize, you've got to figure out some way for medical providers to get paid because — contrary to what you're saying — they're in the free market and that's causing them to lose money.
To the OP, meh. The co-op's going broke — by and large — wouldn't have if Republicans hadn't manipulated the reimbursement rates for high risk cases. In Kentucky the co-op was supposed to get back $79 million. It got around $9 million (if I remember right, my numbers may be off by a million or so). It's not that the funds weren't there, Republicans just didn't allow them to be dispersed through the omnibus bill.
Yay politics. Instead of fixing anything let's make the other guys look bad! :snark:
Good post.
![[Image: ab6247f347c0146f37b8fb21a7d8deb9.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ab/62/47/ab6247f347c0146f37b8fb21a7d8deb9.jpg)
LaLaLucie says the medical industry isn't a part of the free market. :crazy:
Can you arrange it so everytime LaLaLucie logs on the theme song for Rawhide plays? You know . . . Trollin', trollin', trollin' . . .