(04-13-2022, 10:36 PM)Stewy Wrote: In the recent discussion on oil prices, one of the points I made about the energy transition is that it needs to be an actual transition and going "electric or bust" is not only dangerous, but unrealistic and irresponsible (just ask the UK last winter before Putin invaded Ukraine).  One of the key points being that the US power grid and infrastructure is on the verge of collapse as it is, and is not prepared for an oil & gas future, let alone an all electric future.

Here is an article discussing this very subject from Oilprice.com with some nice graphs, statistics and dta - https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-Energy-Grid-Faces-Huge-Problems-Amid-Push-To-Electrify-Everything.html

Happy reading.

(04-14-2022, 08:45 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The electric car is just not the solution, and the quicker people realize it and move on to other technology the better. Not even getting into the arguments about where lithium is mined, how it rapes the earth, how there is no way to dispose of the used batteries, and the power grid etc., let's just look at functionality. The EV functions it's best in temperatures around 70 degrees. Cold weather decreases battery range and performance. Hot temperatures cause quicker battery degradation. So maybe if you don't travel very far, and live in Seattle, an EV will work for you. If you experience North Dakota or New England winters, and have to go very far, not so much. Same for those who summer in places like Florida and the Southwest. You're battery's lifespan is not going to last as long. And it is a given that every lithium ion battery is going to go bad at some point. Now when we talk charging, home chargers take what? I've read a day to a day and a half to charge to full from empty. Fast charging stations can do this in 30 minutes, but again, fast charging a lithium ion battery shortens it's life (as cell phone makers who want you to buy a new phone every two years just love when they sell those fast charging cords.)

Car manufacturers warranty their batteries for like 10 years, but some will not replace a battery that will charge, but is so degraded it's performance is not what it was (think your old laptop or phone that only holds a charge for a couple of hours). I'd have to look it up, but I believe battery packs for vehicles are somewhere around 10K, and some of these have 3 or 4. Hence the guy blowing up his Tesla on You Tube.

If people really want to go green with vehicles, the place they ought to be putting money and resources is into the Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicle infrastructure. You never have to worry about charging it, you fill up at the pump just like a gas vehicle, and the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is water. So much simpler.....

(04-14-2022, 05:05 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: My EV gets me through the CT winter just fine. While I don't disagree with your points about hydrogen fuel cells or the lithium batteries, when it comes to range and charging the majority of Americans would do just fine having an EV. 

(04-15-2022, 08:48 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Every article I had read says the battery performance declines during cold weather, but I don't have one so I'll take your word for it. How far do you travel in it I guess is the next question.

(04-15-2022, 08:58 AM)Au165 Wrote: Modern batteries have continued to improve tremendously, it's one of the more interesting fields to watch progress. Their lifespans are continuing to improve and I think continued investment in battery technology will only continue to improve performance. The other thing is now they have the sensors to properly project any degradation and reflex it in mileage, so while it may deteriorate slightly you will see it projected on your "fuel gauge" so you aren't left confused if you stop. 

My issue remains to be the speed of which charging takes. If your are running late for work and forget to charge your vehicle you are dead in the water. Obviously making it a routine to plug in every night is a great practice but in practicality things happen and people forget so the charging times still need to improve, but they have come A LONG way recently. 

(04-15-2022, 08:58 AM)Au165 Wrote: Modern batteries have continued to improve tremendously, it's one of the more interesting fields to watch progress. Their lifespans are continuing to improve and I think continued investment in battery technology will only continue to improve performance. The other thing is now they have the sensors to properly project any degradation and reflex it in mileage, so while it may deteriorate slightly you will see it projected on your "fuel gauge" so you aren't left confused if you stop. 

My issue remains to be the speed of which charging takes. If your are running late for work and forget to charge your vehicle you are dead in the water. Obviously making it a routine to plug in every night is a great practice but in practicality things happen and people forget so the charging times still need to improve, but they have come A LONG way recently. 

(04-15-2022, 08:48 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Every article I had read says the battery performance declines during cold weather, but I don't have one so I'll take your word for it. How far do you travel in it I guess is the next question.

(04-15-2022, 09:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I think they are probably fine for people in urban areas who only go a few miles to work and back everyday and can get by with basically a big golf cart.  Other people, not so much. And I would hate to even think about travelling long distance in one.

(04-16-2022, 02:07 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Ok boomer

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xatori.Plugshare

(04-18-2022, 02:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I always laugh when someone of the "younger generation" uses the term "Boomer" as if it's a slur. Us Boomers spent the afternoons growing up switching engines and transmissions in our cars, gapping plugs, setting points, adjusting valves. Today's youth can't start a lawn mower. And I'm well aware there are charging stations listed in GPS's, I just don't particularly want to wait in line and then wait 30 minutes for a charge to go another 300 miles.
s

(04-18-2022, 02:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The bolded is my biggest issue with EV. I think they are a great technology to continue investing in and if accessibility can be improved, are a great alternative. However, like AU said, charging times and locations are the issue. I can fill up my 15 gallon tank in about two minutes and be off on my way. I work from home so I don't have to travel to the office, but if I had somewhere to be and had forgot to charge my car, I am screwed. Or, if I am on a trip and need to stop and charge, it is very costly in time. 

(04-18-2022, 02:28 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Boomer...

(04-18-2022, 02:37 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Oh, yeah. The insults and stuff that are thrown back and forth are silly. I am 29, and I think for many younger folks it is easy to forget that the wonderful technology we utilize each day is built on the shoulders of giants so tall, we can't see the ground for the clouds. Sometimes there are opinions or concerns that are thrown out which are genuinely silly, but sometimes there are genuine concerns that people try to invalidate due to someone's age. I think most of what you posted are genuine issues to take with the idea of EV's currently. It is okay to say "yeah, it won't work for me yet" while acknowledging that the technology can still be improved, you know? 

I do disagree with your opinion that they aren't the solution - I think they are, or at minimum will have to be. There is a ton of money in the industry and advancements are currently being made. They also have a not insignificant market share of the car industry. They will need to keep getting better in order to be a solution for everyone, though. The infrastructure isn't there, either.  

(04-18-2022, 02:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The reason I think they aren't the solution, is because the hydrogen fuel cell is so much better. Electric cars, even if you take the issues with the batteries and their ultimate disposal out of it, still have to be charged. In an overwhelming part of the country, that means they are still powered with coal. Hydrogen is the most plentiful thing on this planet, and when it is processed through the fuel cell you can actually drink the water that comes out of the tailpipe. The energy comes from the hydrogen that charges the car. THAT is a true zero emission vehicle. We just need hydrogen pumps. You can fill a hydrogen tank on a vehicle in the same amount of time you can fill up with gas.

(04-18-2022, 02:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I always laugh when someone of the "younger generation" uses the term "Boomer" as if it's a slur. Us Boomers spent the afternoons growing up switching engines and transmissions in our cars, gapping plugs, setting points, adjusting valves. Today's youth can't start a lawn mower. And I'm well aware there are charging stations listed in GPS's, I just don't particularly want to wait in line and then wait 30 minutes for a charge to go another 300 miles.
s

(04-18-2022, 03:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: IDK man, I'm kind of looking forward to the day when I can afford to purchase an all-electric F-150 4x4.