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+--- Thread: Starting Pitchers fading? (/Thread-Starting-Pitchers-fading)
Starting Pitchers fading? - ochocincos - 07-06-2022
Just reading an article on ESPN talking about the decline of the Starting Pitcher.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/34196864/dying-breed-sucks-decline-starting-pitcher-means-baseball-future
Quote:This season, pitch counts for starters have cratered to an average of 84.4, 10 fewer than the standard that held for decades. The typical start -- long, steady, around six innings -- has fallen to barely five. Complete games have almost vanished.
Are we seeing the move away from SPs throwing as many pitches and/or too many innings in order to try to keep them healthier and (hopefully) result in more wins for the team who chooses to pull the SP from the game?
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - bengalfan74 - 07-06-2022
Like the article says there's so much emphasis on speed today. If you can't throw 96+ you're no good. And even though they're pitching less innings and pitches they still throw their arms out.
Greg Maddux won 15+ games a year for 20 seasons and his fastball on a good day with a tailwind was like 90-91. He won with changing speeds, location, and finesse. They need to get back to that style. Even if you can throw a fastball 100 MPH if that's all you got they'll hit it.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - fredtoast - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Are we seeing the move away from SPs throwing as many pitches and/or too many innings in order to try to keep them healthier and (hopefully) result in more wins for the team who chooses to pull the SP from the game?
It is not just keeping them healthy. Batter do better the 3rd or 4th time they see the same pitcher in one game. And this is true even if the pitcher is not tired and losing velocity. Batters just get better the more pitches they see from the same guy.
One of the reasons relievers often have better numbers than starters is because batters don't see relievers as often as they see the starters.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - fredtoast - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Even if you can throw a fastball 100 MPH if that's all you got they'll hit it.
There are guys that never make it out of the minors with 95+ fastballs if they don't have either a lot of movement on their fastball or another pitch they can consistently throw for strikes.
A 100 MPH fastball flies farther when it is hit.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - bengalfan74 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are guys that never make it out of the minors with 95+ fastballs if they don't have either a lot of movement on their fastball or another pitch they can consistently throw for strikes.
A 100 MPH fastball flies farther when it is hit.
Exactly. Greene has got to learn to take a touch off his fastball and make his normal fastball like 95. Only crank it up to 99 a few times a game. And get better at curveballs, changeups, sliders or whatever. They're knocking the cover off his fastballs !
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - ochocincos - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not just keeping them healthy. Batter do better the 3rd or 4th time they see the same pitcher in one game. And this is true even if the pitcher is not tired and losing velocity. Batters just get better the more pitches they see from the same guy.
One of the reasons relievers often have better numbers than starters is because batters don't see relievers as often as they see the starters.
Yep I know that.
But with SPs going fewer innings, it's causing RPs to have to be used more.
Perhaps MLB needs to expand rosters to allow for more RPs to be on the roster such that they don't get overused.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - Goalpost - 07-06-2022
Article is ESPN+ so I can't read the whole story. Do they mention that San Diego has used a 6 man rotation this whole season?
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - ochocincos - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 02:37 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Article is ESPN+ so I can't read the whole story. Do they mention that San Diego has used a 6 man rotation this whole season?
I also don't have ESPN+, so I can only read what you can lol
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - guyofthetiger - 07-06-2022
I grew up in the 70's and starting pitching was much different then. I personally don't like the way the game is going. I liked complete games and more pitches being thrown with less speed. What ever happened to the knuckleball? That pitch was a career for Negro.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - bengalfan74 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 06:21 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I grew up in the 70's and starting pitching was much different then. I personally don't like the way the game is going. I liked complete games and more pitches being thrown with less speed. What ever happened to the knuckleball? That pitch was a career for Negro.
Me too
Every year I like it a little less.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - ochocincos - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 06:21 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I grew up in the 70's and starting pitching was much different then. I personally don't like the way the game is going. I liked complete games and more pitches being thrown with less speed. What ever happened to the knuckleball? That pitch was a career for Negro.
I'm not from that long ago, but I do wish there was more emphasis on hits vs OPS.
Feel likes all walk, homer, or strikeout nowadays.
RE: Starting Pitchers fading? - bengalfan74 - 07-07-2022
(07-06-2022, 09:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not from that long ago, but I do wish there was more emphasis on hits vs OPS.
Feel likes all walk, homer, or strikeout nowadays.
Yes and I hate it. Baseball has never been a thrill a second kind of sport, duh. But they've managed to make it so boring nowdays.