Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? (/Thread-Wind-and-Solar-Power-are-pointless-alternatives) Pages:
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Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - SunsetBengal - 05-10-2023 I found this article to be somewhat interesting, as both the US and British governments have been investing heavily into wind and solar energy. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-wind-and-solar-power-myth-has-finally-been-exposed/ar-AA1aZrIs?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1b3e0dd0bf6c4d97a5b56835a0a21870&ei=13 Quote:Many governments in the Western world have committed to “net zero” emissions of carbon in the near future. The US and UK both say they will deliver by 2050. It's widely believed that wind and solar power can achieve this. This belief has led the US and British governments, among others, to promote and heavily subsidise wind and solar. Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - pally - 05-10-2023 The flaw on his arguement is that somehow he doesnt seem to think there will be any technological improvements in gathering the power, storing it, or distributing in the next 25 years. Use will demand improvements. We are in the infant stages of this technology for mass use. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - SunsetBengal - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 12:12 PM)pally Wrote: The flaw on his arguement is that somehow he doesnt seem to think there will be any technological improvements in gathering the power, storing it, or distributing in the next 25 years. The man is a power systems engineer, with over 60 years of experience around the world. I think that I'll trust his opinion over yours. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - GMDino - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 12:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The man is a power systems engineer, with over 60 years of experience around the world. I think that I'll trust his opinion over yours. Years of experience can be good. But that doesn't mean is "opinion" is. Oil companies, for decades, denied that they affected the climate even though they knew they did. The engineer also "recently" started doubting climate change....though he has no experience in studying that. Oh, and he's heavily invested in hydro power. But to the topic itself...I wouldn't say "pointless". Everything we are currently relying on from oil to goal to gas to wood is finite to varying degrees. We also have lots of people with lots of experience who are showing how those are damaging the Earth. So why not invest in alternatives now instead of when we are in a desperate situation? RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - NATI BENGALS - 05-10-2023 I keep hearing about SMRs. Small modular reactors. Bunch of new patents and a new easier way of doing nuclear. Then I heard about the idea of using the nuclear power to desalinate water or make hydrogen to fuel vehicles. Sounds like some good ideas to me. It wasn’t long ago people were still fighting to protect coal RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - SunsetBengal - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 12:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Years of experience can be good. But that doesn't mean is "opinion" is. Well, he's not alone on doubting the impact human hands have on climate change. As he states on his intro page, "climate has been changing forever". I also think that hydro production is the way to go, particularly tidal and wave production. I think that the issues with that are how efficient is long distance transmission, i.e. how much power is lost over the distance of the transmission to those who don't live near the coast or along rivers? RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Stewy - 05-10-2023 Anyone who has been reading my posts on oil, the future and renewables shouldn't be surprised by this as I have been preaching that sustainability is the key problem with renewables. However, the article lives life in the fairly world where 100% renewables are the only solution. 100% is what people are screaming for, but it is unrealistic for the reasons he, and I, have stated. Where he is incorrect, is that renewables are pointless because of the lack of storage. The problem is that is a singular solution. My company, TotalEnergies, and the other majors, who will build, run and own the renewable market, are planning to bridge the gap created by sustainability issues with cleaner hydrocarbons. Reducing the use of coal and oil power generation in favor of cleaner natural gas, but in lesser amounts as we approach 2050. TTE estimates only 25% of it's power generation will come from HC's by 2050 (and be carbon neutral) whereas it is over 90% now. The oil majors have a plan toward renewables and are acting upon it. Meanwhile govt's hem and haw and point fingers talking a lot or doing nothing at all because they have no control over the situation nor the capital to do it themselves. It's always funny to me how much environmentalists hate on the O&G industry when it will be O&G money that walks us into a renewable future. The real future of renewable energy is fusion, but that's 100 years out, but at least real fusion has finally been achieved. Lastly, none of this speaks to or has a solution for our crumbling power grid, which cannot handle an EV future. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Stewy - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, he's not alone on doubting the impact human hands have on climate change. As he states on his intro page, "climate has been changing forever". Not touching the first line. Harnessing wave action on a large enough scale to be economic is the problem with it, aside from the normal "not in my backyard" mentality. Everyone wants renewables until there's a windmill, dam, solar farm etc. to be built that they can see or affects them and that's when the hypocrites step forward. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Stewy - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 12:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: So why not invest in alternatives now instead of when we are in a desperate situation? See my note above. The majors ARE investing now. My companies renewables capital budget is larger than the O&G budget with the gap being planned to grow yearly going forward. Frankly, I don't think people want to hear that the big major oil companies are actually the ones who are going to own the energy market in the future too. But let's throw some logic on the hysteria.......who is best suited to provide energy to an needy easy energy populace going forward??? How about the companies who have been generating, supplying and delivering energy to homes for a Century+? Who has the know how? Who has the capital? You guessed it....the evil eight, but why don't people talk about it? That I don't know because it isn't like the majors aren't talking about it. It isn't like the majors aren't sharing their budgets with their investors. Anyway, the future is coming whether people know it or not. And you all better be happy that those who know how to supply energy are the ones bringing the future and not our govts. or environmentalists. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Nately120 - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:13 PM)Stewy Wrote: Not touching the first line. Interestingly, I live in a rural and conservative area of PA and people from out of state are buying up land here and setting up solar farms which send power to other states. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - GMDino - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:23 PM)Stewy Wrote: See my note above. The majors ARE investing now. My companies renewables capital budget is larger than the O&G budget with the gap being planned to grow yearly going forward. Frankly, I don't think people want to hear that the big major oil companies are actually the ones who are going to own the energy market in the future too. But let's throw some logic on the hysteria.......who is best suited to provide energy to an needy easy energy populace going forward??? How about the companies who have been generating, supplying and delivering energy to homes for a Century+? Who has the know how? Who has the capital? My question about investing was more about the OP's source calling it "pointless". I'm sure every energy producer is working on the it and wants to the one that gets the lead on the next get source of power. I wish they and the government could do more to improve the grid while they're at it too! RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - GMDino - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, he's not alone on doubting the impact human hands have on climate change. As he states on his intro page, "climate has been changing forever". Correct. There are outliers and those who profit who don't want to believe in climate change. But his 60 years of experience doesn't make his opinion better than someone who works and studies such things. And hydro is great...but so can the other things over time. They aren't "pointless" because they are progress. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - TheLeonardLeap - 05-10-2023 The real energy answer is nuclear. Design and build new plants. Pretty sure all operational US nuclear plants right now started construction in the 70s which means they were probably designed in the 60s. Need a wave of new construction using whatever new designs and materials would make it even more efficient. Don't fully understand how people can be both pro-reducing carbon emissions and anti-nuclear as it's the only realistic answer for consistent power delivery that isn't fossil fuels. Doubly so if they're sold on the concept of trying to transition to electric cars, electric stoves, electric house heating, etc. That'd be a huge increase in electricity demand. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - GMDino - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The real energy answer is nuclear. Design and build new plants. Pretty sure all operational US nuclear plants right now started construction in the 70s which means they were probably designed in the 60s. Need a wave of new construction using whatever new designs and materials would make it even more efficient. I think its an issue people have with safety and what to do with the waste. I'm not well read on it but I do know that nuclear is getting a bit of a "push" to the forefront again recently based on the few things I've seen. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Dill - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 12:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The man is a power systems engineer, with over 60 years of experience around the world. I think that I'll trust his opinion over yours. "Trusting opinions" is not really a good strategy. Especially when expert "opinions" clash. We ought to inform ourselves as much as possible about the science behind these debates, even as laypersons. But if you still want to trust "opinions," then perhaps rate scientists higher than engineers, and scientific consensus over outliers. (05-10-2023, 02:07 PM)SunsetBengalT Wrote: Well, he's not alone on doubting the impact human hands have on climate change. As he states on his intro page, "climate has been changing forever". There isn't much clash of expert opinion when it comes to climate change, though, is there? Even EXXON, who's probably done the most to increase public doubt (e.g., by funding "alternative" studies), now affirms the anthropogenic thesis publicly--as they did privately back in the '70s. Someone who doubts the human impact on climate change because "climate has been changing forever" is not reasoning very well and/or lacks fundamental understanding of the argument that climate change is anthropogenic. No one supposes the climate has not been changing forever; the question is whether it is changing with extraordinary rapidity and with what effects. And it's not just about science. That becomes quickly embedded in the politics of regulating extraction; doubts about whether carbon emissions accelerate climate change are largely generated by the hydrocarbon lobby, both here and abroad. Final note--Leyland's argument seems to presume that energy consumption will remain at present levels. It's not clear to me that will be the case. E.g., innovations in public transportation and home design could cut much of our present energy costs--though I'm not arguing that would be enough to finally eliminate the need for fossil fuels. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Stewy - 05-10-2023 (05-10-2023, 02:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: My question about investing was more about the OP's source calling it "pointless". I'm sure every energy producer is working on the it and wants to the one that gets the lead on the next get source of power. The dirty secret about the US Power grid is that they are mostly owned by local authorities, who are not beholden to anyone but their stock holders. Big Energy companies have nothing to do with it, and the Federal Govt has no authority over it. Personally I don't think the power grid has a chance of being improved unless the Fed Govt nationalizes the power grid. But their so F'd in DC, that would be a disaster too. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - NATI BENGALS - 05-11-2023 (05-10-2023, 09:06 PM)Stewy Wrote: The dirty secret about the US Power grid is that they are mostly owned by local authorities, who are not beholden to anyone but their stock holders. Big Energy companies have nothing to do with it, and the Federal Govt has no authority over it. Personally I don't think the power grid has a chance of being improved unless the Fed Govt nationalizes the power grid. But their so F'd in DC, that would be a disaster too. This was really frustrating to read last month. I did not make it all the way through. I do not believe there was a happy ending. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/06/outdated-us-energy-grid-tons-of-clean-energy-stuck-waiting-in-line.html There has to be a way to not disrupt the system too much and get more of these projects in waiting permission to tie in to the grid. Feels like an area gov resources could help. If they don't get their shit together we may end up having the technology to produce as much energy as you need at home and you won't even need a grid. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - TheLeonardLeap - 05-11-2023 (05-10-2023, 09:06 PM)Stewy Wrote: The dirty secret about the US Power grid is that they are mostly owned by local authorities, who are not beholden to anyone but their stock holders. Big Energy companies have nothing to do with it, and the Federal Govt has no authority over it. Personally I don't think the power grid has a chance of being improved unless the Fed Govt nationalizes the power grid. But their so F'd in DC, that would be a disaster too. Kind of my stance on the healthcare system, too. Anytime I think that maybe some more government control in there wouldn't be the worst idea, another part of my brain reminds me it took 3 weeks for me to get my last medicine refill from the VA and that's without adding 300m+ people to the system, and the last attempt with the ACA wasn't exactly great. Lol RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - masonbengals fan - 05-11-2023 That's actually a very informative article. RE: Wind and Solar Power are pointless alternatives? - Dill - 05-11-2023 (05-11-2023, 12:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Kind of my stance on the healthcare system, too. Anytime I think that maybe some more government control in there wouldn't be the worst idea, another part of my brain reminds me it took 3 weeks for me to get my last medicine refill from the VA and that's without adding 300m+ people to the system, and the last attempt with the ACA wasn't exactly great. Lol Your problems with the VA sound more like a problem with party control, not government control. I.e., one party's efforts to "cut waste" there by reducing the staff needed to serve veterans. |