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Look Back at the Trump economy - Luvnit2 - 06-29-2023
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/20/economy/trump-economy/index.html
"It took 10 years. Americans finally believe the economy is good"
Wow, even CNN reported Trump's record economy and how voters felt about it in December, 2019 (pre-pandemic).
Now we have Bidenomics where 69% of people (new high) have no confidence in the Biden economy now or in the future.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/public-pessimism-on-the-economy-hits-a-new-high-cnbc-survey-shows.html
Looks like Bidenomics, only people getting rich are Obama and the Biden family.
But, hey spin this liberals all you want, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. People who can't afford groceries or are losing or lost the house or apartment see this economy has. the highest inflation in decades since Biden was sworn into office. That is why almost 70% are very unhappy and rightly so.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - GMDino - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/20/economy/trump-economy/index.html
"It took 10 years. Americans finally believe the economy is good"
Wow, even CNN reported Trump's record economy and how voters felt about it in December, 2019 (pre-pandemic).
Now we have Bidenomics where 69% of people (new high) have no confidence in the Biden economy now or in the future.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/18/public-pessimism-on-the-economy-hits-a-new-high-cnbc-survey-shows.html
Looks like Bidenomics, only people getting rich are Obama and the Biden family.
But, hey spin this liberals all you want, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. People who can't afford groceries or are losing or lost the house or apartment see this economy has. the highest inflation in decades since Biden was sworn into office. That is why almost 70% are very unhappy and rightly so.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-vs-biden-economy-ec8ff89a
Not that you will read it, or care.
Thank goodness you're NOT a republican...I can't imagine the insane things you would post.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Mickeypoo - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote:
https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-vs-biden-economy-ec8ff89a
Not that you will read it, or care.
Thank goodness you're NOT a republican...I can't imagine the insane things you would post.
I was MUCH better off financially during Trumps term then I have been under Biden's term.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - hollodero - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:38 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I was MUCH better off financially during Trumps term then I have been under Biden's term.
I think it's a fair question to ask if this has all that much to do with Trump or Biden. Most of the Trump years fell into a period of a global economic upswing, just until the pandemic, where the Trump economy also took a nosedive. Biden's term had to deal with the fallout of said pandemic and with the Ukraine development, that sent economies worldwide in a downward spiral. Same goes for inflation, which is not an US phenomena, but a worldwide issue. Could Biden have done better, possibly, but then again maybe not that much.
And not all of the metrics in Biden's economy are that bad, eg. quite low unemployment. In the same sense, not everything under Trump was golden. Eg regarding the national debt that has risen for roughly 7.8 trillion dollars (some say a bit more, some say a bit less) under his tenure. Quite a number. Some of it is pandemic-related, some of it already happened before the pandemic though, through Trump contradicting the former logic of using good economic times to decrease the deficit. I for one can't determine whether Biden or Trump did better economically given the circumstances they were in, but I would caution against glorifying the Trump years in comparison.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - pally - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:38 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I was MUCH better off financially during Trumps term then I have been under Biden's term.
and Trump's so-called great economy was destroyed during the same Trump presidency, but somehow all you all ignore that. Year 4 of his presidency was an economic disaster. Even the low gas prices were as a result of zero demand. Even if Trump actually won in 2020, gas prices would have gone up dramatically
I remember in 2016 when Trump was running, him screaming about how the unemployment numbers were false...there was no way they were that low. Then his first numbers come out with a very slight .1% drop and him screaming from the rooftops about how good that was. He inherited a strong stable economy. All he had to do is maintain. In year 4 he blew it. But, already There were already signs of a recessionary/inflationary period on the horizon when the pandemic hit. But we will never know what was going to happen there.
Since Regan, there has been a fairly predictable pattern...lower rich people's taxes, the economy looks good for about 3 years, then the economy starts to crash, Democratic president comes and cleans things up.
The right-wing has a very good megaphone in their media apparatus. They have a vested interest in touting Trump's numbers at the expense of Bidens'
There are so many factors that go into worldwide inflation. Weather events, pandemics/epidemics both human and animal, wars, civil unrest, technology impacts, corporate profit taking. Look at the earnings statements of companies in the economic sectors driving inflation. Now imagine what inflation would look like if these corporations weren't price gouging and wage suppressing
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - GMDino - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:38 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I was MUCH better off financially during Trumps term then I have been under Biden's term.
(06-29-2023, 11:58 AM)hollodero Wrote: I think it's a fair question to ask if this has all that much to do with Trump or Biden. Most of the Trump years fell into a period of a global economic upswing, just until the pandemic, where the Trump economy also took a nosedive. Biden's term had to deal with the fallout of said pandemic and with the Ukraine development, that sent economies worldwide in a downward spiral. Same goes for inflation, which is not an US phenomena, but a worldwide issue. Could Biden have done better, possibly, but then again maybe not that much.
And not all of the metrics in Biden's economy are that bad, eg. quite low unemployment. In the same sense, not everything under Trump was golden. Eg regarding the national debt that has risen for roughly 7.8 trillion dollars (some say a bit more, some say a bit less) under his tenure. Quite a number. Some of it is pandemic-related, some of it already happened before the pandemic though, through Trump contradicting the former logic of using good economic times to decrease the deficit. I for one can't determine wheteher Biden or Trump did better economically given the circumstances they were in, but I would caution against glorifying the Trump years in comparison.
Agreed with the bold. And anyone who actually clicked the link and read the article would know it says exactly that. But I didn't expect the Trump supporters to care about facts...just how they "feel".
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Mickeypoo - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 11:58 AM)hollodero Wrote: I think it's a fair question to ask if this has all that much to do with Trump or Biden. Most of the Trump years fell into a period of a global economic upswing, just until the pandemic, where the Trump economy also took a nosedive. Biden's term had to deal with the fallout of said pandemic and with the Ukraine development, that sent economies worldwide in a downward spiral. Same goes for inflation, which is not an US phenomena, but a worldwide issue. Could Biden have done better, possibly, but then again maybe not that much.
And not all of the metrics in Biden's economy are that bad, eg. quite low unemployment. In the same sense, not everything under Trump was golden. Eg regarding the national debt that has risen for roughly 7.8 trillion dollars (some say a bit more, some say a bit less) under his tenure. Quite a number. Some of it is pandemic-related, some of it already happened before the pandemic though, through Trump contradicting the former logic of using good economic times to decrease the deficit. I for one can't determine wheteher Biden or Trump did better economically given the circumstances they were in, but I would caution against glorifying the Trump years in comparison.
The only reason it took a nosedive is because leaders worldwide locked the citizens down, crushed their businesses and destroyed the economy.
It is interesting how most big box stores where magically able to stay open during covid. Hmmm, lock everybody down, close small businesses, leave the big box stores open who also have online options and look at all those wealthy people and shareholders getting even more rich as online sales explode.
I was calling BS after a week or two of lockdowns. People are easily fear mongered.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - KillerGoose - 06-29-2023
This is one area where I think presidents get so much undue praise and criticism. The economy is a massive machine and very complex. A lot of it will depend on the state of the global economy as well. I tend to think the above post from Hollodero lines up with my thinking. The direct control that presidents have over the economy is greatly overstated IMO.
Learning about how an economy works and why what is happening, is happening, is a complex topic and a lot of people don't care to learn about those nuances. This ends up resorting to black and white thought process like this because it is easier to do.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Mickeypoo - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:05 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is one area where I think presidents get so much undue praise and criticism. The economy is a massive machine and very complex. A lot of it will depend on the state of the global economy as well. I tend to think the above post from Hollodero lines up with my thinking. The direct control that presidents have over the economy is greatly overstated IMO.
Learning about how an economy works and why what is happening, is happening, is a complex topic and a lot of people don't care to learn about those nuances. This ends up resorting to black and white thought process like this because it is easier to do.
You are probably right. Trump had some great policies that had the economy strong; which may have well continued into the Biden admin if not for the insane worldwide lockdowns that crushed everything. People can call me whatever names they want, but it was so overboard that I think it was done purposefully.
I also believe Biden would not be Prez right now if it were not for Covid. The economy was very strong and no wars. Biden didn't have a chance if we were not locked down like animals.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - hollodero - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:05 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The only reason it took a nosedive is because leaders worldwide locked the citizens down, crushed their businesses and destroyed the economy.
It is interesting how most big box stores where magically able to stay open during covid. Hmmm, lock everybody down, close small businesses, leave the big box stores open who also have online options and look at all those wealthy people and shareholders getting even more rich as online sales explode.
I was calling BS after a week or two of lockdowns. People are easily fear mongered.
Ah, that's a tough one. But overall, mind you I did not blame Trump for the nosedive, but the circumstances. It would have happened under any president.
As for calling BS on the lockdowns, that determination seems a bit too far-fetched to me. The first covid variant was quite dangerous and no one could have predicted with any certainty how this would develop if no countermeasures were taken. Different nations all around the world reached that conclusion, as well as experts all around the globe, that it was simply too dangerous and unpredictable to not react. Not saying every measure was justified (like lockdowns in the Omikron period, that I was quite critical of), I share some of the harsh critizisms, but it was a tough situation and a tough determination to make. Leaders opted for caution and I can't really blame them for that in principle.
And Trump was amongst those leaders, after all. You can't really disassociate him from the measures taken in his tenure.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - KillerGoose - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:09 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: You are probably right. Trump had some great policies that had the economy strong; which may have well continued into the Biden admin if not for the insane worldwide lockdowns that crushed everything. People can call me whatever names they want, but it was so overboard that I think it was done purposefully.
I also believe Biden would not be Prez right now if it were not for Covid. The economy was very strong and no wars. Biden didn't have a chance if we were not locked down like animals.
Yeah, prior admin policies can still be in effect causing either issues or boons that we would have already forgotten about. There is a lot that goes into it. For instance, we can look at annual real GDP increase as percentage to try to boil it down to an easily digestible figure. Under Trump, real GDP increased on average by 1.53%. Under Biden so far, it is increasing 2.74% but most of this is going to be recovery percentages as Trump's final year saw a decrease instead of an increase. Under Obama in his second term, it increased by an average of 2.24% and in his first term (right after the massive recession in 2008), it increased an average of 1.49%.
The economy is still recovering right now. It wasn't just a U.S. isolated issue like 2008, but a global issue. You're right in that the lockdowns really put a hurting on economic progression, again, globally. This is going off memory here, but as far as I remember the U.S. economy is recovering the quickest globally.
It's hard to say who would have won if not for COVID. Trump may very well have won, but Biden would still have been the favorite IMO. Trump is just a very deeply disliked man. Meanwhile, Biden was the former sidekick for a rather popular president on the Democratic side. For instance, in 2019, roughly half of polled voters expected Trump to win re-election. Only 50%, in a year where everything was going great. It can be tough to find, but there are early polls from 2019 that can be found that show Biden already leading Trump. Here is an interactive chart that has polling data from 2019. By the time 2020 rolled around, Trump was pretty much dead in the water. I think Trump was in trouble no matter what, really. Democrats were just fired up to get him out of office.
EDIT - That second link is actually a great link for reviewing historical polling data. They have data going back to February of 2019. Hell, there are a few FOX News posted polls that have Biden up by +14. That is a massive margin.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - hollodero - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The economy is still recovering right now. It wasn't just a U.S. isolated issue like 2008, but a global issue. You're right in that the lockdowns really put a hurting on economic progression, again, globally. This is going off memory here, but as far as I remember the U.S. economy is recovering the quickest globally.
As far as I am told as a non-resident, this is indeed the case.
(06-29-2023, 12:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: By the time 2020 rolled around, Trump was pretty much dead in the water.
It was 44.000 votes in three crucial swing states (Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona) that gave Biden the edge. Imho more of a coin flip than a candidate being dead in the water. I have to agree with mickey here, I'd wager without the pandemic the election very well could have swung the other way.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - KillerGoose - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: As far as I am told as a non-resident, this is indeed the case.
It was 44.000 votes in three crucial swing states (Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona) that gave Biden the edge. Imho more of a coin flip than a candidate being dead in the water. I have to agree with mickey here, I'd wager without the pandemic the election very well could have swung the other way.
To be clear, I am not meaning to say that Biden blew Trump out of the water. I know the margins were thin, but I wouldn't be surprised if Wisconsin and Arizona went to Biden anyways. Biden had been the polling favorite even prior to COVID.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - hollodero - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:51 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: To be clear, I am not meaning to say that Biden blew Trump out of the water. I know the margins were thin, but I wouldn't be surprised if Wisconsin and Arizona went to Biden anyways. Biden had been the polling favorite even prior to COVID.
Yeah well, so was Hillary. But sure, this is a side topic, I'm just constantly surprised how many people take the 2020 election as a resounding rejection of Trump. I get now that you were not trying to do that, I mistook your words.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Truck_1_0_1_ - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 12:20 PM)hollodero Wrote: Ah, that's a tough one. But overall, mind you I did not blame Trump for the nosedive, but the circumstances. It would have happened under any president.
As for calling BS on the lockdowns, that determination seems a bit too far-fetched to me. The first covid variant was quite dangerous and no one could have predicted with any certainty how this would develop if no countermeasures were taken. Different nations all around the world reached that conclusion, as well as experts all around the globe, that it was simply too dangerous and unpredictable to not react. Not saying every measure was justified (like lockdowns in the Omikron period, that I was quite critical of), I share some of the harsh critizisms, but it was a tough situation and a tough determination to make. Leaders opted for caution and I can't really blame them for that in principle.
And Trump was amongst those leaders, after all. You can't really disassociate him from the measures taken in his tenure.
![[Image: MV5BOGQ5NjFmNjctMTI0OC00Y2EzLTg3OTgtY2E2...X1000_.jpg]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOGQ5NjFmNjctMTI0OC00Y2EzLTg3OTgtY2E2ZTFmOTc2OTJjL2ltYWdlL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTA1OTEwNjE@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg)
Good to see another fan
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Stewy - 06-29-2023
The POTUS has little to nothing to do with the economy. Ignorant voters get convinced otherwise.
Thus this thread.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - hollodero - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 02:12 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:
Good to see another fan
lol, oh my... that game any good and playable on PC? It's under 2 Euros on steam, so I might as well try to waste some time on it...
...as for the covid variant, ok omicron, I get it. I used the German spelling here.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Truck_1_0_1_ - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 02:26 PM)hollodero Wrote: lol, oh my... that game any good and playable on PC? It's under 2 Euros on steam, so I might as well try to waste some time on it...
...as for the covid variant, ok omicron, I get it. I used the German spelling here.
Yes and yes
It's better on the PC than the Dreamcast (where I played it), which I would deem an 8/10 game. It's an interesting concept and David Bowie is a prominent character in it (his, "Hours..." album is filled with songs from the game).
David Cage's (Heavy Rain) first game under Quantic Dream. For 2 bucks, can't go wrong
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - KillerGoose - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 03:13 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yes and yes
It's better on the PC than the Dreamcast (where I played it), which I would deem an 8/10 game. It's an interesting concept and David Bowie is a prominent character in it (his, "Hours..." album is filled with songs from the game).
David Cage's (Heavy Rain) first game under Quantic Dream. For 2 bucks, can't go wrong
Quantic Dream has made some fascinating games. I loved Detroit: Become Human. I played but never beat Beyond: Two Souls. I will probably play the upcoming Star Wars game, too.
RE: Look Back at the Trump economy - Luvnit2 - 06-29-2023
(06-29-2023, 02:24 PM)Stewy Wrote: The POTUS has little to nothing to do with the economy. Ignorant voters get convinced otherwise.
Thus this thread.
Why call me an ignorant voter because I don't agree with your politics.
I showed in my original post a CNN (not Fox) fact base poll on how Americans felt about the Trump economy. They loved it at the end of 2019 prior to the Pandemic.
Next I showed you a recent poll from CNBC, again showing real time thoughts on the Biden economy.
We can all debate if a POTUS is the main reason economies thrive or don't. But most people vote with their wallet whether you like it or not. There is also Americans who do pay attention to major US cities and states and how either liberal or conservative policies have impacted their economy. We can see people leaving California for Texas and Florida. We see people leaving New York for Florida. We saw Florida start back up in September of 2021 and all schools back in session by December 2021. We saw South Dakota never shut down.
Democratic cities and states escalated their poor economy by being overly cautious with businesses and schools. Republican cities and states moved quicker and got their economy going faster and also got their kids back to in classroom learning.
The state I live in Florida is thriving post Covid. Last I checked, they were a part of the US and the world. It was great leadership by our governor ignoring Faucci and opened the state back up. He was correct and the Democrats who waited 12 months into late 2022 to open back up fully were wrong.
Leaders do have a lot to do with the economics in their city, states and the US (POTUS). Biden is responsible for his policy decisions that hurt the economy like his day 1 attack on fossil fuels causing gas prices to rise quickly. Biden went back to over regulation hurting business.
The reality is we live in a country that has the highest inflation in decade under Biden. His policies and the policies of those Democrats in NYC, D.C., California and others contribute to the poor economy, don't take my word for it, take the word of how Americans feel about our economy in any poll.