(10-22-2023, 03:11 PM)pally Wrote: If McCarthy wanted Democrat's help maybe he shouldn't have lied to them.

(10-22-2023, 03:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It is impressive how quickly you changed your tune on this compared to not that long ago when Manchin was being an obstacle to Democrats ability to get things done, including lying to him about including something to get his vote. Lol

(10-22-2023, 03:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Exactly. That's exactly my whole point. You can't do something and then pretend you have absolutely zero involvement on the results of that thing you did. 

You can do that if you had inaction you can make the case you had nothing to do with it, but once you take action, you are at least partially involved.

(10-22-2023, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Of course they removed McCarthy, the guy kisses the ass of a guy who is actively trying to overthrow democracy.  That's an amount of action im floored that spineless political party took. 

If they voted to keep McCarthy for any reason they're going to convince people to just stop voting for them.  Vote left vote right, either way you get Trump and his underlings.  

Shame on them?  Maybe. 

(10-22-2023, 07:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That said, at least to me it sure seems like enabling and empowering Gaetz is by far the worse of the two evils. 

(10-23-2023, 05:00 PM)pally Wrote: Trump makes his new endorsement for Speaker....none other than Jesus himself

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1716520264316649546

(10-23-2023, 05:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: HEADLINE:  Trump endorses non US citizen for speaker

(10-23-2023, 05:49 PM)pally Wrote: not just a non US citizen but a man from Palestine

(10-23-2023, 06:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Jesus was born in the Roman province of Judaea, not Palestine.  Before the Romans conquered it it was controlled by the Hasmonean dynasty, a Jewish people.  So, no, not a "man from Palestine."

(10-23-2023, 06:17 PM)GMDino Wrote:

(10-23-2023, 06:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Jesus was born in the Roman province of Judaea, not Palestine.  Before the Romans conquered it it was controlled by the Hasmonean dynasty, a Jewish people.  So, no, not a "man from Palestine."

(10-23-2023, 06:17 PM)GMDino Wrote:

(10-23-2023, 06:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I could go on about how Palestinians are the descendants of the poorer, lower class Jewish people that could not afford to leave the area during the diasporas. They suffered through all the tribulations that took place in the land, many converting from their Jewish faith, but still the genealogical descendants of the Jewish people that inhabited the area just lacking the means to escape the atrocities committed against them by invading peoples.

I could go into that, but that muddies the waters a lot when it comes to this conflict and most people don't want that.

(10-22-2023, 11:43 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So you believe that voting for a situation to happen means you have no responsibility for that situation happening?

It's still the Republicans job to get their shit together to choose a new Speaker, which they seem to be incapable of doing... but to think Democrats have completely zero responsibility for the House not having a Speaker when they all unanimously voted to get rid of the Speaker? That seems disingenuous at best.

(10-23-2023, 08:05 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: McCarthy voted to not certify the election. Right after a failed coup at the capital.
McCarthy also signed on to the amicus brief urging the SCOTUS to overturn election results.
McCarthy was also a trump ally/ass kisser.

And you want to blame democrats because they did not provide protection to a traitor who tried to throw out our democratic election results?

If they voted to keep a traitor in power you would have a point they are to blame for the situation. But they didn’t. They never voted to put him in power. They never voted for the new rules that allowed him to gain power and easily lose power.

They voted to give America a speaker who did not try to destroy our democracy. Every time. So play all the gotcha games you want. But when it all boils down. That’s the bottom line. And the actions that they own.

(10-23-2023, 10:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It sure seems like you didn't read my posts at all throughout this thread and just decided to come in hot with your response deciding I said what you wanted me to say to be on the bad other side rather than what I was actually saying.

Quote:I don't need a list of how McCarthy sucks. I literally referred to him as an evil when I said that empowering Gaetz is the worse of two evils. I would never vote for either to lead a bake sale, let alone my state or country.

Lol, gotcha games? I am not "blaming" Democrats. I am just saying you all are not completely unrelated to the situation and pretending otherwise seems disingenuous. If you make a decision to participate in something, you have made yourself at least partially related. Regardless of why you are a part of it, regardless of if you are right/wrong to be a part of it. 

Quote:You sure seem to be mistaking me with someone else who wants to play the Party A Good vs Party B Bad game.

(10-23-2023, 10:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It sure seems like you didn't read my posts at all throughout this thread and just decided to come in hot with your response deciding I said what you wanted me to say to be on the bad other side rather than what I was actually saying.

I don't need a list of how McCarthy sucks. I literally referred to him as an evil when I said that empowering Gaetz is the worse of two evils. I would never vote for either to lead a bake sale, let alone my state or country.

Lol, gotcha games? I am not "blaming" Democrats. I am just saying you all are not completely unrelated to the situation and pretending otherwise seems disingenuous. If you make a decision to participate in something, you have made yourself at least partially related. Regardless of why you are a part of it, regardless of if you are right/wrong to be a part of it. 

You sure seem to be mistaking me with someone else who wants to play the Party A Good vs Party B Bad game.

(10-24-2023, 12:39 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Wasn’t trying to come at you side eyed. And I know you seem to be one of the people as close to a centrist as we have around here.

But I take issue with anybody blaming democrats for this mess because they wouldn’t prop up and keep in a position of power a man like McCarthy. That is not their job. And I don’t think many if any who voted for them would have wanted them to.

They didn’t just make a decision to participate in something so you can point the finger and place just as much blame on them and let the party that can’t govern off the hook. They did their job.

They ran a campaign, got elected, and swore an oath.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

And then did exactly what they swore they would do.

(10-24-2023, 01:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You say you weren't trying to come at me side eyed, but then you follow it up by saying something like that. Lol. I never said that Democrats are equally to blame for the current situation. I never said Republicans are off the hook.

I am only saying that this idea that a lot of people here seem to have is wrong. Voting for a situation to happen means you can't say your hands are 100% clean of the results of your vote. I don't know if that is .01% to blame or 49% to blame. I honestly don't care to even begin to try to bother with that thought process or try to play that game.

Libya was in Civil War against their horrible leader. NATO did their job/sword their oaths/did exactly what they swore to do or however you want to phrase it by creating a no-fly zone and later having an airstrike against Gaddafi's security which led to his capture and execution. We helped save civilians from being massacred by their government that was led by a ruthless dictator. Objectively did the good thing. The country has been in conflict, war, and turmoil for the 12 years since. Is NATO 100% clean and clear from any and all responsibility for those 12 years? That's all I am trying to say. If you choose to take action, you are at least partially responsible to some varying degree for the result of those actions even if those actions were your duty and the right thing to do. You can't act entirely unconnected to it.