+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Cincinnati-Bengals-NFL)
+--- Forum: JUNGLE NOISE (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-JUNGLE-NOISE)
+--- Thread: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? (/Thread-What-are-the-Bengals-doing-at-Defensive-Tackle)
What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Synric - 05-15-2024
Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - WeezyBengal - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
My guess is they are going to lean on a rotation with Rankins, Hill, and Jenkins. I am not sure they have plans of really playing a true NT all that much. I don't think Jackson will see many snaps his rookie year.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: My guess is they are going to lean on a rotation with Rankins, Hill, and Jenkins. I am not sure they have plans of really playing a true NT all that much. I don't think Jackson will see many snaps his rookie year.
I agree that thise will be the top 3 and we may play a lot without a true NT. But I also think Jenkins is an elite run defender from 3T, Hill will at some NT, and Jackson will play a lot more than people think.
I thought the 5th/6th round grades on him were absurd. As were the takes that Sweat would ne around in the 3rd/4th.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - jj22 - 05-15-2024
thinking it'll be by committee. Add Tufele in the mix. It is definingly a hope, wish, and prayer they are leaning on going into the season with this group. They could bring back Tupou, but he may have really disappointed in his play last season. In the prior seasons I though the was at least suitable for spot duty.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - phil413 - 05-15-2024
It's a good question and I wondered the same thing about Hill. I don't know if the plan is clear cut and it may be as Synric said below that they don't go with a traditional nose which is a gamble.
It's been the most interesting position group to see develop this offseason. We knew Reader could leave and since the market didn't have anything close to a replacement they really went with BPA move with Rankins and deemed it better to risk relying on rookies than pay the cost for a vet. They were desperate enough to kick the tires on a known character issue in Tart, and I doubt the trade market had much since there is a lack of descent backup NTs in the league.
So, I think they just understood that there isn't anything close to a Reader replacement of a true NT. If they can put up points and Kenkins provides any sort of push in the rotation this could be good. But if BJ struggles with more double teams and smart coordinated lines like Cleveland take advantage then it could be a mistake.
Lastly, this is why I'm going to harp on the value of the trade deadline this year. I know we don't historically utilize it much, and you shouldn't bank on it but you have to explore it. Win now doesn't mean trading all your high picks, but with the deadline moved back more teams will have to face that they're sellers. You could get a descent NT for a mid round pick possibly.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - WeezyBengal - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 11:46 AM)jj22 Wrote: thinking it'll be by committee. Add Tufele in the mix. It is definingly a hope, wish, and prayer they are leaning on going into the season with this group. They could bring back Tupou, but he may have really disappointed in his play last season. In the prior seasons I though the was at least suitable for spot duty.
Yeah, I'm honestly not expecting a ton from this group this year. They were bad last year and I just don't see how a rookie and a downgrade from Reader to Rankins is going to elevate them.
I think the back end of the defense got a little bit better, but maaaan they are really going to have to have some young guys step up (Murphy, Turner) or they will be putrid again this year.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - jj22 - 05-15-2024
The refusal to play a traditional 3rd lb more to stop the run and beef up the front 7 doesn't help.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - WeezyBengal - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 12:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: The refusal to play a traditional 3rd lb more to stop the run and beef up the front 7 doesn't help.
It's a good thing we aren't in a division with teams that lean on the run a lot.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Synric - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 11:52 AM)phil413 Wrote: It's a good question and I wondered the same thing about Hill. I don't know if the plan is clear cut and it may be as Synric said below that they don't go with a traditional nose which is a gamble.
It's been the most interesting position group to see develop this offseason. We knew Reader could leave and since the market didn't have anything close to a replacement they really went with BPA move with Rankins and deemed it better to risk relying on rookies than pay the cost for a vet. They were desperate enough to kick the tires on a known character issue in Tart, and I doubt the trade market had much since there is a lack of descent backup NTs in the league.
So, I think they just understood that there isn't anything close to a Reader replacement of a true NT. If they can put up points and Kenkins provides any sort of push in the rotation this could be good. But if BJ struggles with more double teams and smart coordinated lines like Cleveland take advantage then it could be a mistake.
Lastly, this is why I'm going to harp on the value of the trade deadline this year. I know we don't historically utilize it much, and you shouldn't bank on it but you have to explore it. Win now doesn't mean trading all your high picks, but with the deadline moved back more teams will have to face that they're sellers. You could get a descent NT for a mid round pick possibly.
Excellent post.
My overall point is call him what you want but BJ Hill is looking at a greatly increased role in the A Gap than previous years. The second part was I seen Jackson more as developmental early down NT than a short yardage over the center NT. These are my two biggest worries headed into the season especially in the AFC North.
I love the pair of Rankins and Jenkins in a rotation at under tackle though.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Luvnit2 - 05-15-2024
Once Reader was injured in 2023, we had no proven run stopper. I think Bengals will use a 4/5 man rotation at DT and slide Hubbard inside on passing downs.
To me, a fresh DL in the 4th quarter would be valuable. Jenkins and Carter need to help us stop the run. Hill is steady as well. Rankins is a vet.
I also think our run support with Bell back not only to stop the run but get us lined up properly is important.
I also think Stone will help us both against the run and pass.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Sled21 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
This will all work itself out at camp.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Au165 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
They made an interesting note about not thinking Jenkins body had been tapped out in terms of adding size. I think because of his strength we will see him playing the 0/1 more than people think. I could see him being a bit of a Harrison Phillips and playing nose at 305 or so but being capable of holding his own.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Joelist - 05-15-2024
Obviously Reader will be missed but overall this is a better DT room top to bottom than last season. All 4 DTs are at worst sound against the run going up to elite in college (Jenkins). Hill and Rankins both bring pass rush to the table and Jenkins flashed that as well. Last season Reader when healthy was good and Hill was good but after that it went off a cliff. Once this group gets into sync and used to being together we will be far better against the run; just doing it in a different way than before.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 11:52 AM)phil413 Wrote: It's a good question and I wondered the same thing about Hill. I don't know if the plan is clear cut and it may be as Synric said below that they don't go with a traditional nose which is a gamble.
It's been the most interesting position group to see develop this offseason. We knew Reader could leave and since the market didn't have anything close to a replacement they really went with BPA move with Rankins and deemed it better to risk relying on rookies than pay the cost for a vet. They were desperate enough to kick the tires on a known character issue in Tart, and I doubt the trade market had much since there is a lack of descent backup NTs in the league.
So, I think they just understood that there isn't anything close to a Reader replacement of a true NT. If they can put up points and Kenkins provides any sort of push in the rotation this could be good. But if BJ struggles with more double teams and smart coordinated lines like Cleveland take advantage then it could be a mistake.
Lastly, this is why I'm going to harp on the value of the trade deadline this year. I know we don't historically utilize it much, and you shouldn't bank on it but you have to explore it. Win now doesn't mean trading all your high picks, but with the deadline moved back more teams will have to face that they're sellers. You could get a descent NT for a mid round pick possibly.
We'll also have a good feel for how Hill (if more of a NT), Jenkins, and Jackson are doing.
In terms of run defense, Hill for Reader is a big downgrade, as is Rankins for Hill.
I'd assume Jenkins for Carter will be an upgrade, as will Jackson for Tupou. But those are rooks.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
Would like to see BJ gain a few more pounds and become the Nose Tackle this year. He can do it, he is a very versatile DT and is a good
run stopper. McKinnley Jackson as much as I love the guy should take some time to be a good NT as you say. Most rookies struggle so
we should expect it. Even with Kris Jenkins who is a great run stopper who needs to work on his pass rush.
Rankins should be our pass rushing 3-tech this year.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - SunsetBengal - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: Some much needed major changes to the defensive tackle room where made this off-season but left a massive of question mark . Who is the starting Nose Tackle? Right now the front 4 probabaly looks like Hendrickson - Rankins - Hill - Hubbard which means BJ Hill is going to be the A-Gap defender for the majority of the snaps. Will BJ Hill add weight from 311 to 320ish?
Another question is will McKinnley Jackson be the short yardage Nose Tackle? I was a big Jackson fan pre-draft and love that we added him but I don't think he is going to be a successful short yardage nose in his rookie year.
I like that the Bengals attacked the trenches this off-season but playing in the AFC North I would have liked to see them add someone with some size and experience at DT.
I have a feeling that we might see more of the 5 man DL when we go against run heavy teams, like the ones in our Division. I would guess that they would go with Carter or Sample as the extra DT and Vonn Bell subbing in for one of the LBs. They have to stop the run and force them to pass, the best that we can hope for is to get teams into 3rd down and 5+.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - jj22 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 03:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have a feeling that we might see more of the 5 man DL when we go against run heavy teams, like the ones in our Division. I would guess that they would go with Carter or Sample as the extra DT and Vonn Bell subbing in for one of the LBs. They have to stop the run and force them to pass, the best that we can hope for is to get teams into 3rd down and 5+.
You got Carter making the club Sunset?!
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - bfine32 - 05-15-2024
Looking at some OTA clips, Domenique Davis looks like a big dude. Maybe he can put it all together.
WTS, I'm not sure our 0-Tech is on the team yet
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 04:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: You got Carter making the club Sunset?!
I know you didn't ask me, but I sure don't. So far Carter has shown one good play against the Vikings in all the time he has been here.
(05-15-2024, 04:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Looking at some OTA clips, Domenique Davis looks like a big dude. Maybe he can put it all together.
WTS, I'm not sure our 0-Tech is on the team yet
I like Davis, as a backup.
You may be right and we pick up a NT after cuts as the only true one on the team right now is a rookie in McKinnley Jackson.
I really like Jackson for the future, but relying on a rookie to fill DJ Reader's shoes is a big ask.
RE: What are the Bengals doing at Defensive Tackle? - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 05-15-2024
(05-15-2024, 03:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have a feeling that we might see more of the 5 man DL when we go against run heavy teams, like the ones in our Division. I would guess that they would go with Carter or Sample as the extra DT and Vonn Bell subbing in for one of the LBs. They have to stop the run and force them to pass, the best that we can hope for is to get teams into 3rd down and 5+.
If you ask me to put my best run stoppers out there in a 5 man DL:
Hubbard--Jenkins--Jackson--Hill--Sample.
Though Murphy could break into that discussion. Hendrickson, Ossai, and Rankins are more pass rush guys.
The last guy is likely Carter, Tufele, Bell, or one of the PS guys, Davis or Maxwell. In terms of size, I think Davis is the only guy there who is 320+.
In terms of 3 LB sets, remember ADG was out a lot last year. I think we could see Bell/Hill as the 3rd LB situationally. And Njongmeta is a thumper.