(02-05-2016, 04:15 PM)Benton Wrote: Her examples a bad one, but I get the idea behind it. In truth, she didn't get pulled over because middle age moms in minivans are the lowest criminal demographic, behind elderly women (except for shoplifting, those wenches will steal you blind).

I'm a middle age white guy. I drive a newer model Nissan. I rarely get pulled over (although I got my first ticket last year for speeding). Is it because I'm white? No, it's because I've got a decent car and I'm usually dressed for work. When I was a teenage/20 something white guy, I got pulled over constantly driving my beat up Camaro(s). Because I was white? No, because I was out at midnight in a cheap car, wearing a t-shirt with some band name on it.

It's not a race issue there, it's poverty and how it relates to the likelihood of crime.

Racism exists, but I don't think it's daily effect is as bad as some people think. I also don't think it has nearly the impact on social problems as poverty. As I mentioned in another thread, if you grow up in a culture where you can make $30 an hour selling drugs or $7 an hour working fast food, you're going to give some serious thought to breaking the law.

(02-05-2016, 03:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, for those non-religious types, there is a religious bent to this. For those that mock the idea of privilege, this is about white privilege and recognizing it. http://michellederusha.com/2016/01/why-im-not-cool-with-my-96-white-church/

I would pull a quote, but you have to read the whole thing to get it, and it's lengthy so I don't want to post it all. Take a look, see what you think. Comment. I'll wait a bit to jump in to see if anyone else has any thoughts.

(02-05-2016, 05:07 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I love how she acts like racism is a sin according to her religion. Yes, racism is horrible, but to act like it's not regularly endorsed in the bible your just kidding yourself. Hell, it even talks about how you can beat your slave to death as long the slave dies a few days later, and not right away...

Sorry about going on that tangent, because it has little to do with the OP.

(02-05-2016, 05:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: She acknowledges the other variables at play, there. I definitely don't think it is a far stretch to see being pulled over 4 times in 36 hours for a busted taillight as being contributed to by race. Especially given that the socioeconomic statuses are not really different between them (just based on what little knowledge I have of these two from their respective blogs).

I think part of the problem is that we perceive being impoverished as being more likely to be a criminal, and we perceive a member of the black community as being more likely to be impoverished. This is where racism really comes into play with this.

(02-05-2016, 05:46 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable (1 Peter 2:18)

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose (Matthew 5:17)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong has been done, and there is no partiality.Colossians 3:22-25

There's quite a few more verses from the new testament that endorses slavery.

(02-05-2016, 05:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Slavery and racism are not synonymous. We only equate the two here because of the history in this country. Aside from that, none of those verses endorse slavery. 1 Peter and Colossians are messages to slaves, telling them their suffering is not in vain and that they are suffering as Christ suffered for them. The verse from Matthew is referring to fulfilling the prophecies, for without the law there is no prophecy. This is why we can't dismiss the OT, because it shows us where Jesus comes from. But as we are not the people of Israel, the new covenant written with the body and blood of Christ is our relationship with God.

(02-05-2016, 06:01 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How is that not endorsing slavery? It's literally telling the slaves to do whatever their master is telling them even if they are extremely bad to them. If the bible didn't endorse slavery then it would outright say it's wrong to have slaves, or it wouldn't even mention slaves.

(02-05-2016, 06:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It would have to mention slaves in those NT texts because those people writing them were preaching to an enslaved people. You notice it doesn't speak to the masters of the slaves, it speaks to the slaves themselves. Acknowledging the existence of something does not equate to endorsing it.

That being said, there are passages speaking to the masters of servants/slaves. Again, acknowledgement is not endorsement. And we have to bring it all the way back around to the fact that slavery and racism are not synonymous.

(02-05-2016, 06:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. Leviticus 25:44-46

This is literally saying you can go and get slaves. The new testament doesn't make things like this go away. In fact just like the Matthew verse the new testament endorses everything that the old testament says. Including slavery.

(02-05-2016, 06:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: First, I'll bring this all the way back around, again, and inform you that slavery and racism are not synonymous and therefore discussing the Bible's endorsement of slavery doesn't relate to the racism discussion, especially since Paul (who wrote the parts in the NT where he acknowledges slavery but never denounces it) does denounce racism. A number of times.

Second, I've explained the Matthew verse. Ignoring what I said does not make it go away.

Now, if you would prefer to continue pretending I did not make these points and choose not to argue against them, please don't bother rehashing the same argument with different verses that I have already done a sufficient job of showing why they are not relevant in this thread. Feel free to start a thread discussing how there was slavery in the Bible and how much you want to try to use that to denounce a religion that has moved past that as culturally we have evolved in the western world, the religion in question included.

(02-05-2016, 06:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Ok, so slavery doesn't mean racism. Fine, but Jesus didn't change the old testament. There's nothing in the new testament that says because Jesus came it changes the covenant or the laws that were in the old testament. In fact the new testament says multiple times that it doesn't change anything, but it does say that not one thing in the old testament is to be changed.

(02-05-2016, 06:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is still an off topic conversation, but I'll bite. It is my thread after all. Please feel free to point out where in my explanation of the Matthew verse I stated that Jesus changed the Mosaic laws or the OT. Then, please point out any verses in the NT that contradict my explanation. For every verse in opposition to the antinomian stance there is one in support of it.

(02-05-2016, 06:57 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Slavery, in the Bible only lasted for seven years and after the seventh year, the slave was to be freed and his/her debt paid. The same rules applied to both Hebrew slaves and Gentile slaves. People in Biblical times sold themselves into slavery to avoid poverty or to gain a little money.

These were the Hebrew laws and not the Roman laws where you could be a slave until death under Roman law. I do believe but I'm not sure, that under Hebrew law in that time a slave after his/her seventh year could choose to remain a slave forever though. The slave owner though would have to treat that slave as part of the family or something like that.

The law of the Old Testament was to clean the person, to cover the sin of man. Jesus Christ came to fullfill the law of the Old Testament, but not to cover the sin of man, to wash mans sin away. At least that's my understanding.