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A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender (/Thread-A-Governor-Ordered-to-Serve-as-a-Public-Defender) |
A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - GMDino - 08-05-2016 http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/when-the-governor-is-your-lawyer/494453/?utm_source=atlfb Quote:Missouri’s public-defender system is in crisis. Like many other systems throughout the U.S., it is underfunded, understaffed, and underappreciated. The state spends less than half of the national average in per-capita public-defense spending, placing it in 49th place out of 50, according to the National Legal Aid and Defense Association. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - CKwi88 - 08-05-2016 In my (relatively short) time working in the judicial branch, I have gained nothing less than utmost respect for Public Defenders and their office. They are routinely overworked and underpaid. I've come to believe that they are really playing for good karma in the next life. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - SunsetBengal - 08-05-2016 I guess that's fair, considering that Missouri is only the 36th poorest State in the Union. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - HarleyDog - 08-05-2016 (08-05-2016, 11:17 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: In my (relatively short) time working in the judicial branch, I have gained nothing less than utmost respect for Public Defenders and their office. Over worked and underpaid is only part of the problem. Many are incompetent. I've seen public defenders in action, and in zero cases has any of them had the knowledge and expertise to even argue a case. I won't say that is the majority, wait, yes I will. You are guilty in this society unless you can pay a good attorney who can give you representation. If you don't have cash or a rich family member who loves you very much? Prepare to do time, regardless if your guilty or not! RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - SunsetBengal - 08-06-2016 (08-05-2016, 11:59 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Over worked and underpaid is only part of the problem. Many are incompetent. I've seen public defenders in action, and in zero cases has any of them had the knowledge and expertise to even argue a case. I won't say that is the majority, wait, yes I will. You are guilty in this society unless you can pay a good attorney who can give you representation. If you don't have cash or a rich family member who loves you very much? Prepare to do time, regardless if your guilty or not! It's not that way everywhere in the US, Harley. The County I come from in Ohio, all of the Professional attorneys "take turns" at being Public Defender, while still maintaining their public practice. Defendants get the full service of an attorney that is well known and practiced in that particular court. Sort of unique, but it works. None of the attorneys gets "stuck" with all of the shit forever, and they don't lose any money from their paying clients. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - HarleyDog - 08-06-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:05 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's not that way everywhere in the US, Harley. The County I come from in Ohio, all of the Professional attorneys "take turns" at being Public Defender, while still maintaining their public practice. Defendants get the full service of an attorney that is well known and practiced in that particular court. Sort of unique, but it works. None of the attorneys gets "stuck" with all of the shit forever, and they don't lose any money from their paying clients. A few years ago my daughter had to go to court in Indiana. Of course I was there for support. This friggin attorney come in to represent this young couple who looked like they could use a break, with a suit which was at least 2 sizes to small and wearing sneakers because he claimed he forgot his suit and had a "suit in a bag" in case of emergencies. The other PD was so old I really felt he was suffering from Alzheimer's, and another spoke to their client cluelessly. I even heard another admit he didn't have time to thoroughly review their case and to explain details. I witnessed all this sitting in the hallway. It was a joke and I so badly wished I would have had chosen a different career to help these people. It's refreshing to hear not all are incompetent. However, I will challenge the fact they give a damn. Think about it. Why would many want to sink many hours into a case for a client who won't be able to be a repeat customer, or a case your going to be paid for anyway if you do well or not? The worst thing about PD's is that their human. Although, it's unrealistic to say all don't care. There's got to be some that are extraordinary people who give a damn about people over money. However, if God gives me the means to hire the best attorney possible, I will use it for that purpose because my faith in PD's sucks. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - bfine32 - 08-06-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:36 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: However, I will challenge the fact they give a damn. Think about it. Why would many want to sink many hours into a case for a client who won't be able to be a repeat customer, or a case your going to be paid for anyway if you do well or not? The worst thing about PD's is that their human. Although, it's unrealistic to say all don't care. There's got to be some that are extraordinary people who give a damn about people over money. However, if God gives me the means to hire the best attorney possible, I will use it for that purpose because my faith in PD's sucks. Do you take pride in every aspect of your job? RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - HarleyDog - 08-06-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you take pride in every aspect of your job? No. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - bfine32 - 08-06-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:48 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: No. Well then I understand your outlook RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - fredtoast - 08-07-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:36 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: A few years ago my daughter had to go to court in Indiana. Of course I was there for support. This friggin attorney come in to represent this young couple who looked like they could use a break, with a suit which was at least 2 sizes to small and wearing sneakers because he claimed he forgot his suit and had a "suit in a bag" in case of emergencies. The other PD was so old I really felt he was suffering from Alzheimer's, and another spoke to their client cluelessly. I even heard another admit he didn't have time to thoroughly review their case and to explain details. I witnessed all this sitting in the hallway. It was a joke and I so badly wished I would have had chosen a different career to help these people. So basically you have no idea if they were competent or not. You just did not like the way they looked. PDs are generally overworked, but here in Tennessee there is a lot of competion for the jobs. The ones that are selected are very qualified. As for being motivated by profit, the same argument could be made for prosecuting attornies. Do you think none of them give a damn either? RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - Belsnickel - 08-07-2016 (08-06-2016, 12:36 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: A few years ago my daughter had to go to court in Indiana. Of course I was there for support. This friggin attorney come in to represent this young couple who looked like they could use a break, with a suit which was at least 2 sizes to small and wearing sneakers because he claimed he forgot his suit and had a "suit in a bag" in case of emergencies. The other PD was so old I really felt he was suffering from Alzheimer's, and another spoke to their client cluelessly. I even heard another admit he didn't have time to thoroughly review their case and to explain details. I witnessed all this sitting in the hallway. It was a joke and I so badly wished I would have had chosen a different career to help these people. Just like any job you will have people that really enjoy what they do, and those that don't. For those that serve the public it becomes especially evident. In a lot of municipalities and in some states **coughVirginiacough** civil servants are very underpaid and overworked. Some people get into the job thinking it is completely different than what it is or really thinking they can handle the job. Many can't, and then you get people doing a bad job. Ther are plenty out there, though, that love serving the public and will do all they can to help. When you work for a government agency you see this sort of thing all the time. I see it where I work, and I an accountant. There are a handful of us that do what we do because we like helping our students, we take pride in protecting the assets of our taxpayers, etc. Some are just there for a paycheck (no matter how meager). But you see that in every workplace. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - HarleyDog - 08-07-2016 (08-07-2016, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So basically you have no idea if they were competent or not. You just did not like the way they looked. I think PAs are motivated by money as well. Aren't most judges former PAs? How many times do you think a PA might feel they can't win a case, so offer a plea deal? Why do they do this? It's to save reputation for when it's voting time, not in all cases, but some. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - CKwi88 - 08-07-2016 (08-07-2016, 10:58 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think PAs are motivated by money as well. Aren't most judges former PAs? How many times do you think a PA might feel they can't win a case, so offer a plea deal? Why do they do this? It's to save reputation for when it's voting time, not in all cases, but some. Prosecutors offer a plea deal in almost every case, not just the ones that they aren't 100% confident in winning at trial. I've found that very few people in the judicial system actually want to go to trial. You're coming off as someone who feels that they were at one point slighted by the judicial system rather than someone who has actual knowledge about it. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - fredtoast - 08-07-2016 (08-07-2016, 11:51 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Prosecutors offer a plea deal in almost every case, not just the ones that they aren't 100% confident in winning at trial. I've found that very few people in the judicial system actually want to go to trial. Plea deals are usually the best choice for defendants. They get a lighter sentence by taking responsibility for what they did wrong. If they go to trial and lose they usually get a much harsher penalty. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - michaelsean - 08-08-2016 Im all for a strong PD,and most of them are probably competent or better. Probably just too damned many cases. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - HarleyDog - 08-08-2016 (08-07-2016, 11:51 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Prosecutors offer a plea deal in almost every case, not just the ones that they aren't 100% confident in winning at trial. I've found that very few people in the judicial system actually want to go to trial. Really? So how many innocent people have served time with this lack of confidence you call normal? Think about that for awhile. Innocent people will accept plea deals because they fear the alternative. You accept this? Granted, the same bs thinking gets guilty people reduced charges too, which is just as bad! I think our judicial system is the best in the world. However, it's still not great. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - Belsnickel - 08-09-2016 (08-08-2016, 11:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Really? So how many innocent people have served time with this lack of confidence you call normal? Think about that for awhile. Innocent people will accept plea deals because they fear the alternative. You accept this? Granted, the same bs thinking gets guilty people reduced charges too, which is just as bad! I think our judicial system is the best in the world. However, it's still not great. So what is the alternative? If you get rid of plea deals you have to bring them all to trial. The legal system is already backed up in a lot of places, this would only make it worse. It could make it get to the point where people are spending weeks waiting for a trial, or even a bail hearing, for something only to be found innocent. Or they could be found guilty for something that would have normally been only a couple of days in county, instead they spent a month. And all of this would also contribute to our already overburdened (and corrupt) prison system. Not to offload on you, just a lot to consider, here. RE: A Governor Ordered to Serve as a Public Defender - fredtoast - 08-09-2016 (08-08-2016, 11:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Innocent people will accept plea deals because they fear the alternative. And that is better than an innocent person going to trial and getting convicted. I don't really understand your point. Every defendant has the option of going to trial if he wants to. |