West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun (/Thread-West-Virginia-cop-fired-for-not-killing-a-man-with-an-unloaded-gun) Pages:
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West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/09/12/west-virginia-cop-fired-for-not-killing-a-man-with-an-unloaded-gun/?utm_term=.7bbae602713e Quote:We’ve tracked countless cases here where cops were able to keep their jobs after killing unarmed people, killing people after responding to the wrong house, killing people and then lying about it . . . the list goes on. I don't even have words for how awful this is. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - BigPapaKain - 09-15-2016 'Murica continues to make an embarrassment of it's citizens and itself. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Belsnickel - 09-15-2016 I'm conflicted on this one. I'm one that would like to see a decline in police involved shootings, but there is not enough information here. If Williams at any time made a threatening gesture with that firearm then it was a clean shoot. You don't know a weapon is unloaded. Even if it is a suicide by cop situation, it is putting your safety and the safety of others at risk to not take the shot if the threat is there. Unfortunately, because the police department involved is handling this situation poorly, we have only speculation to go on and they are making it easy to assume corruption. I applaud the officer for sticking to his guns here, but if he violated procedure then him sleeping better at night is the only upside to the situation. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:17 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm conflicted on this one. I'm one that would like to see a decline in police involved shootings, but there is not enough information here. If Williams at any time made a threatening gesture with that firearm then it was a clean shoot. You don't know a weapon is unloaded. Even if it is a suicide by cop situation, it is putting your safety and the safety of others at risk to not take the shot if the threat is there. My thing is the first officer on the scene was handling things. It was the two that came later that did the shooting. If the second pair did not evaluate what was going on there is a huge communication problem. And another unarmed man is dead in a suicide by cop situation. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - BmorePat87 - 09-15-2016 I give credit to WaPo for not putting "black man" in the headline like other news outlets did, just said, "armed man". Doesn't seem relevant in this case. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - BmorePat87 - 09-15-2016 It's hard to fault the two who came late. They see an armed man who is walking towards them with a weapon. We know he wanted to get himself clear, so we can only imagine how he acted. The fault against the first is that, since he doesn't know the gun isn't loaded, not taking him down could have killed the two who arrived later. At the same time, that suggests that the only response to an armed person is to kill. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - xxlt - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: My thing is the first officer on the scene was handling things. It was the two that came later that did the shooting. If the second pair did not evaluate what was going on there is a huge communication problem. Exactly. The fired officer was doing the right thing BY POLICY. He was deescalating the subject. Even if the gun was loaded, with it pointed at the ground subject was not a threat. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:34 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's hard to fault the two who came late. They see an armed man who is walking towards them with a weapon. We know he wanted to get himself clear, so we can only imagine how he acted. The fired officer used his training and what he knew about the call: The man wanted to kill himself. And he was fired for using his training and NOT shooting a man who wanted to kill himself. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - BmorePat87 - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: The fired officer used his training and what he knew about the call: The man wanted to kill himself. I don't disagree, I'm just presenting the rationale of the police department while providing my own take on what that suggests (that the response is to just shoot). RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-15-2016 Unsurprisingly, left leaning media sites have all omitted the following quotes from the terminated officer; Quote:“Firing me for it, it’s less of an eyebrow-raiser then to say the other officers are justified in what they did — which I think they were.” and "Mr. Mader is white and Mr. Williams was black. But Mr. Mader said the other two officers — who are also white — did the right thing given their situation." Quote:“They did not have the information I did,” he said. “They don’t know anything I heard. All they know is [Mr. Williams] is waving a gun at them. It’s a shame it happened the way it did, but, I don’t think they did anything wrong.” I wonder why the national news media has omitted those rather salient facts from their reporting? RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-15-2016 Also, I'm curious why GMDabo felt the need to put "unloaded gun" in his thread title. How is that relevant? How could the responding officers know the gun wasn't loaded. Should they have just assumed it was unloaded? Is this merely the most recent example of GMDabo framing an argument against LEO's? Is GMDabo even capable of rational thought on this subject? You decide! RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also, I'm curious why GMDabo felt the need to put "unloaded gun" in his thread title. How is that relevant? How could the responding officers know the gun wasn't loaded. Should they have just assumed it was unloaded? Is this merely the most recent example of GMDabo framing an argument against LEO's? Is GMDabo even capable of rational thought on this subject? That is the title of the article at the link. I suppose it was relevant since the first officer was trying to defuse a suicide by cop situation and it shows he was handling it correctly. You know, a good cop trying to do things the right/best way. Could it be you have an internal tic to accuse me personally of things you don't know and to defend all officers (except the one fired I guess)? I won't pass judgement on you for it though. Can you address how the officers handled the situation? Should the first officer have been more aggressive and shot the man just in case two other officers showed up and were put in danger? RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - BmorePat87 - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:53 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Unsurprisingly, left leaning media sites have all omitted the following quotes from the terminated officer; Yea, I'm not faulting the two who came later. Seems like an appropriate response. I'm curious what your take on the first officer is. Should he have been fired for trying to deescalate rather than disable? RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - bfine32 - 09-15-2016 Seems like a hard one to call with one side of the story. I have read where the man with the gun was walking toward the other 2 officers waving his gun. Of course, everyone would want the situation resolved without casuality; but an investigation revealed his reluctance to shoot put fellow officer's lives at risk. Much to Mader's credit he says the other Officers were justified in their shooting. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:53 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Unsurprisingly, left leaning media sites have all omitted the following quotes from the terminated officer; If they omitted it where did you get the quotes? But seriously I don't think anyone has accused the other two of doing anything "wrong"...the story posted was about an officer who also did nothing "wrong" but was fired for it. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 10:45 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't disagree, I'm just presenting the rationale of the police department while providing my own take on what that suggests (that the response is to just shoot). yeah, this less about him getting shot (we don't know what he did to get that reaction) and more about the first officer, with more information, trying to deescalate the situation and getting fired for what happened later. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 11:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: If they omitted it where did you get the quotes? Fair enough. I forgot to include the link for the original article. I'm a little rushed this morning. http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2016/09/11/Weirton-fired-officer-who-did-not-fire-at-man-with-gun/stories/201609090080 RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-15-2016 (09-15-2016, 11:09 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, I'm not faulting the two who came later. Seems like an appropriate response. I'm curious what your take on the first officer is. Should he have been fired for trying to deescalate rather than disable? It's borderline impossible for me to give a good answer to that because I don't know that department's policy, I don't know this officer's prior conduct and I don't know the framework for termination during a probationary period for that department. You'd have to look at the entirety of this officer's record and you'd have to know policy before you could make that determination. I will say this is one of the problems I have with "at will" employment, they don't even need to give you a reason many times. RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - bfine32 - 09-15-2016 I think this is easily a story that could be manipulated to fit your agenda. Would the following headline be incorrect: "Probationary Officer released from force after failing to eliminate a threat from charging fellow officers while brandishing a firearm". RE: West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun - GMDino - 09-15-2016 See now things like this article set people off, but it looks like the officers did what they had to do based on the situation. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/09/15/ohio-police-officer-shoots-kills-13-year-old-bb-gun/90398996/ Quote:Ohio police: Officer shoots, kills 13-year-old who drew BB gun But because it was a teen and it wasn't a "real" gun people will treat it like they just walked up on him and shot like the kid in Cleveland. Each situation is unique. |