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+--- Thread: Brainwashed into mediocre. (/Thread-Brainwashed-into-mediocre)
Brainwashed into mediocre. - GreenCornBengal - 09-27-2016
There is something about this team that really bothers me. While I know generally this is true, our team is very focused on the "Games in the NFL are typically a one score affair, and one play here or a mistake there can decide the game."
Now, why does this bother me?....
Because around the league there are teams winning 27-0, 28-0. Teams winning by large margins, far more than one score, on a weekly basis. IMO, we have brainwashed ourselves into thinking every game is going to be a close one. When we play teams that we should handle, we keep it close. When we play against playoff caliber teams, we, to our credit, keep it close.
I'm a big proponent of the mental side of the game, and the confidence of the players. If you continually tell them that games will be close, what is to stop them from ever gaining enough confidence to comfortably hand other teams their A****, knowing that we would, before, during, and after the game. Sure, we beat the Bears down however long ago that was, and we (Marvin Jones) ripped the Jets a new a few years back... occasionally we beat down the Browns (who doesn't) but overall, this team simply never shows its dominance. It either squeaks it out against lesser opponents, really squeaks it out against equal opponents, or has some sort of sloppy showing against the better teams. The playoff blunders can only be a product of this mentality IMO.
While I agree with the notion that NFL games are "any given Sunday" I just can't help but think it its a leech on the confidence of this team. I think a big part of the Patriots success is feeling completely prepared and expecting to win. There was a quote from Whit after the Pitt game that made me feel like this team feels it can win any game... or consequently lose ANY game...... "It's really about uh... Going in each week, trying to put yourself in a situation, to have the ball and HAVE A CHANCE to win."
This team focuses too much on "having a chance to win" instead of just dominating the opponent. Getting humbled is one thing, going in to a game expecting the chance of getting humbled is just a bad tentative trait to have (IMO). I don't think Bruce Arians strives for "a chance to win", he wants to win games like they did against TB (40-7).. He wants his teams to show a fire and desire that this team (once again IMO) has lacked.
It's a 2000 Ravens mentality, and I just don't like it. It's the Marvin Lewis way, and I'm frankly tired of it. (This is a rant that has been accumulating for years now... being 1-2 is a bummer, but this is something that goes far far back. This team never seems to win big, but instead win barely when it needs it most..... unless its the playoffs.)
(Now go ahead and argue that most NFL games are closer than not... I'll agree with you, but just pointing out that the teams that more consistently dominate opponents expect to do it, and I just don't think the Cincinnati Bengals ever have that expectation.)
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Sweetness - 09-27-2016
Marvin Lewis has about as much fire as a wet blanket.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - jason - 09-27-2016
In 2011 the Bengals thumped the Seahawks in Seattle. In 2012 they beat the tar outta the defending champion Giants. In 2013 they spanked the Jets and Vikings. In 2014 the beat the brakes off the Browns and maybe the Falcons too. Those are just off the top of my head. I believe they were blown out in each of those years too. Steelers got them in 2011; Baltimore in 2012. Steelers again in 2013. The Colts and Browns in 2014.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - GreenCornBengal - 09-27-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:07 PM)jason Wrote: In 2011 the Bengals thumped the Seahawks in Seattle. In 2012 they beat the tar outta the defending champion Giants. In 2013 they spanked the Jets and Vikings. In 2014 the beat the brakes off the Browns and maybe the Falcons too. Those are just off the top of my head. I believe they were blown out in each of those years too. Steelers got them in 2011; Baltimore in 2012. Steelers again in 2013. The Colts and Browns in 2014.
Seattle back when they had tavaris Jackson, was close till half tho, fun game. Giants game was awesome with the opening bomb. Don't remember the Vikings game... weird? I somewhat remember beating the Falcons. Perhaps I haven't had directTV as long as I thought and missed some of these dominating victories.
Still, I feel this team has a tentative nature (Marvin Lewis) instead of one that expects to dominate... could be wrong.. idk just my opinion.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Nately120 - 09-27-2016
I think folks are just going from one extreme to the other, and that's football for ya. I live in Steeler country so I heard about the Steelers winning the SB after they beat the Bengals and how they need to fire everyone after they lost to the Eagles.
With the Bengals, we spent all off-season convincing ourselves that our top-tier offense would be as good if not better without Hue (he's too damn cute), MLJ (not clutch, too pricey, LaFell, Boyd, Core, *7th round nobody who didn't make it through training camp* is as good/better), Sanu (no defending this...the guy got WAY overpaid), Eifert (Kroft and/or Uzomoah are going to step up), in addition to Hill being better (because of Zampese). Basically, we had ourselves convinced the Bengals were going to be lights-out as soon as Dalton got back on the field and the Steelers and Ravens were going to do little to get in our way.
Things can still lead that way, but this looks like a typical overreaction of negativity spurned on by months of irrational expectations. In a few days we beat the Dolphins and are 2-2 and right back to just needing to win division games to seal the deal.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - fredtoast - 09-27-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:16 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Still, I feel this team has a tentative nature (Marvin Lewis) instead of one that expects to dominate... could be wrong.. idk just my opinion.
Yep. You are wrong.
Lasts year the Bengals won 5 games by 14 points or more. Only 4 other teams had more and no team had more than 7.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Nately120 - 09-27-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yep. You are wrong.
Lasts year the Bengals won 5 games by 14 points or more. Only 4 other teams had more and no team had more than 7.
That is the basis for my unease. Our offense was so good last year I really wasn't gangbusters about so many things changing going into 2016.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - jason - 09-27-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:16 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Seattle back when they had tavaris Jackson, was close till half tho, fun game. Giants game was awesome with the opening bomb. Don't remember the Vikings game... weird? I somewhat remember beating the Falcons. Perhaps I haven't had directTV as long as I thought and missed some of these dominating victories.I was at that Giants game. The best seats I ever had... Ninth row behind the Bengals bench. We got there a lil late, and could hear the national anthem as we entered the stadium. I took a leak, my buddy bought beers. I hear the crowd roar while I'm pissing. I walk out and my friend tells me that AJ just scored... Already.
Still, I feel this team has a tentative nature (Marvin Lewis) instead of one that expects to dominate... could be wrong.. idk just my opinion.
They had just list like 3-4 in a row going into that game. The giants had a good record coming in. The season looked lost. The giants never recovered from that game, while the Bengals basically ran the table into the playoffs. I hope Thursday turns out similar.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-28-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:07 PM)jason Wrote: In 2011 the Bengals thumped the Seahawks in Seattle. In 2012 they beat the tar outta the defending champion Giants. In 2013 they spanked the Jets and Vikings. In 2014 the beat the brakes off the Browns and maybe the Falcons too. Those are just off the top of my head. I believe they were blown out in each of those years too. Steelers got them in 2011; Baltimore in 2012. Steelers again in 2013. The Colts and Browns in 2014.
Don't forget the beating we put on RGIII and the 'skins.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - BengalFanInNJ - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 09:49 AM)Wyche Wrote: Don't forget the beating we put on RGIII and the 'skins.
Didn't the Bengals only win that game by a TD?
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - NATI BENGALS - 09-28-2016
I agree. Everybody talks about all the talent on our roster. But it is preached from the top down every game is a grind. Instead of grinding and telling the team we can barely win it should be asserting our dominance.
We need more confidence.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Wyche'sWarrior - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:50 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Didn't the Bengals only win that game by a TD?
After a quick review, you are right.....I remember the Sanu bomb, and a beating laid on RGIII....seemed we beat them more than the score indicated.....38-31. Good catch...
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Marlon23 - 09-28-2016
(09-27-2016, 09:13 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: There is something about this team that really bothers me. While I know generally this is true, our team is very focused on the "Games in the NFL are typically a one score affair, and one play here or a mistake there can decide the game."
Now, why does this bother me?....
Because around the league there are teams winning 27-0, 28-0. Teams winning by large margins, far more than one score, on a weekly basis. IMO, we have brainwashed ourselves into thinking every game is going to be a close one. When we play teams that we should handle, we keep it close. When we play against playoff caliber teams, we, to our credit, keep it close.
I'm a big proponent of the mental side of the game, and the confidence of the players. If you continually tell them that games will be close, what is to stop them from ever gaining enough confidence to comfortably hand other teams their A****, knowing that we would, before, during, and after the game. Sure, we beat the Bears down however long ago that was, and we (Marvin Jones) ripped the Jets a new a few years back... occasionally we beat down the Browns (who doesn't) but overall, this team simply never shows its dominance. It either squeaks it out against lesser opponents, really squeaks it out against equal opponents, or has some sort of sloppy showing against the better teams. The playoff blunders can only be a product of this mentality IMO.
While I agree with the notion that NFL games are "any given Sunday" I just can't help but think it its a leech on the confidence of this team. I think a big part of the Patriots success is feeling completely prepared and expecting to win. There was a quote from Whit after the Pitt game that made me feel like this team feels it can win any game... or consequently lose ANY game...... "It's really about uh... Going in each week, trying to put yourself in a situation, to have the ball and HAVE A CHANCE to win."
This team focuses too much on "having a chance to win" instead of just dominating the opponent. Getting humbled is one thing, going in to a game expecting the chance of getting humbled is just a bad tentative trait to have (IMO). I don't think Bruce Arians strives for "a chance to win", he wants to win games like they did against TB (40-7).. He wants his teams to show a fire and desire that this team (once again IMO) has lacked.
It's a 2000 Ravens mentality, and I just don't like it. It's the Marvin Lewis way, and I'm frankly tired of it. (This is a rant that has been accumulating for years now... being 1-2 is a bummer, but this is something that goes far far back. This team never seems to win big, but instead win barely when it needs it most..... unless its the playoffs.)
(Now go ahead and argue that most NFL games are closer than not... I'll agree with you, but just pointing out that the teams that more consistently dominate opponents expect to do it, and I just don't think the Cincinnati Bengals ever have that expectation.)
I am going to go out on a limb here and say our best years are behind us if we do not turn it around in the next 3-4 games. If we do not win then I think we must realize the best of this core group is over (some are already out the door). It happens so fast that we don't want to come to terms with it, but I think last year has left us with a bitter taste with this group of Bengals. I am also going to say, Andy Dalton can NOT and will NOT lead us to the promise land. (I hope I eat these words).
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - OrlandoBengal - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 12:38 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: I am going to go out on a limb here and say our best years are behind us if we do not turn it around in the next 3-4 games. If we do not win then I think we must realize the best of this core group is over (some are already out the door). It happens so fast that we don't want to come to terms with it, but I think last year has left us with a bitter taste with this group of Bengals. I am also going to say, Andy Dalton can NOT and will NOT lead us to the promise land. (I hope I eat these words).
I used to be sort of so-so on Dalton, but as of now could not disagree with you more. I honestly think the best thing the Bengals can do is to put the game in his hands. Let him make the presnap reads, call the audible, and decide the play. Of course, they need to find some way to keep him off his ass all the time, but Dalton can get it done.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 09-28-2016
I am not really concerned about the keeping it close question unless it is the Steelers, we need to just
blow that team out so the refs have no say. With the Jets and the SB champ Broncos you knew it was
going to be close games. Those might be the best two Defenses in the league.
The thing i am concerned about is our inability to adjust to the other team at halftime. We did well when
we took the lead on the FG but after that the Broncos adjusted and took the game over. Marv was clearly
out coached once again by Kubiak and Phillips.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:00 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I used to be sort of so-so on Dalton, but as of now could not disagree with you more. I honestly think the best thing the Bengals can do is to put the game in his hands. Let him make the presnap reads, call the audible, and decide the play. Of course, they need to find some way to keep him off his ass all the time, but Dalton can get it done.
For sure. Dalton is not a concern to me anymore, if anything he is the one guy i am confident in as
long as he has some time in the pocket. In the Bronco game he didn't have any time, the whole OL
was collapsing on him. They are the ones that need to play better and take it out of Marv's hands
to outcoach good coaches cause that aint happenin.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - XenoMorph - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. Dalton is not a concern to me anymore, if anything he is the one guy i am confident in as
long as he has some time in the pocket. In the Bronco game he didn't have any time, the whole OL
was collapsing on him. They are the ones that need to play better and take it out of Marv's hands
to outcoach good coaches cause that aint happenin.
Dalton really hasn't ever had that much time in the pocket... Which is why we kinda had to go with the quick passing attack...
Ive seen plays in the nfl where the QB seems like he has all day. I cant remember any of those for Dalton.(this is not to say my memory is the end all be all of information just I personally never remember thinking damn Dalton has all day back there)
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Nate (formerly eliminate08) - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:28 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Dalton really hasn't ever had that much time in the pocket... Which is why we kinda had to go with the quick passing attack...
Ive seen plays in the nfl where the QB seems like he has all day. I cant remember any of those for Dalton.(this is not to say my memory is the end all be all of information just I personally never remember thinking damn Dalton has all day back there)
I agree with that. Cannot remember that time either. If we catch a Defense on Playaction i have seen it but
that is cause they think it is going to be a run. When Defenses know Dalton is going to pass i am with you.
Cannot remember thinking Dalton has all day back there.
Luckily he has a quick release.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Hammerthis - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 12:38 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: I am going to go out on a limb here and say our best years are behind us if we do not turn it around in the next 3-4 games. If we do not win then I think we must realize the best of this core group is over (some are already out the door). It happens so fast that we don't want to come to terms with it, but I think last year has left us with a bitter taste with this group of Bengals. I am also going to say, Andy Dalton can NOT and will NOT lead us to the promise land. (I hope I eat these words).
Andy Dalton can NOT and will not lead us to the promise land....that's been my belief for a long time. And I like the guy, but he lacks courage.
RE: Brainwashed into mediocre. - Hammerthis - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with that. Cannot remember that time either. If we catch a Defense on Playaction i have seen it but
that is cause they think it is going to be a run. When Defenses know Dalton is going to pass i am with you.
Cannot remember thinking Dalton has all day back there.
Luckily he has a quick release.
Also, like other QBs, it would be nice if Andy could take it upon himself to buy more time in the backfield.