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The Fallacy of White Privilege - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: The Fallacy of White Privilege (/Thread-The-Fallacy-of-White-Privilege) |
The Fallacy of White Privilege - PhilHos - 09-30-2016 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431393/white-privilege-myth-reality Quote:A pillar of contemporary Leftism is the notion of “white privilege.” Given that a generation of high-school and college students are being taught that a great number of “unearned privileges” accrue to white Americans, the charge of white privilege demands rational inquiry. This article showed up on my Facebook newsfeed this morning and considering this topic came up in the other thread, I felt this was God's way of telling me to post it and so I did. ![]() Thoughts? (On the article, not on God speaking to me via Facebook ![]() RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - Belsnickel - 09-30-2016 The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - BmorePat87 - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument. I don't like the term "white privilege", because it does suggest that the person is being handed something or that they should be ashamed of it. It is also often times mischaracterizes as meaning "White people get things, particularly monetary things". No, it just means that if you compare me to another person who grew up with a lower-middle income single mom, but they were black, our experiences would vary because of our race. I would be less likely to get diagnosed with a behavioral problem or disabilities if we acted the same way. If our fathers were arrested with drugs, mine would be more likely to get a plea bargain, less likely to serve jail time, and if they served jail time, would likely serve less time. My father would be more likely to get a job after prison, even if the black kid's dad never went to prison, and equally likely if that kid's dad actually went to college, which my father did not do until the age of 49. When we went to get a job during high school, I would be more likely to get a call back with my Irish and Italian sounding name than if he had a traditionally Black American, African, or Spanish name. Obviously somethings can equalize this. Money can be a great equalizer. Having more support at home, which usually comes with having more money, can change this too. This shouldn't be brought up as a "you had it easy!" or "we had it hard!". It should be a "Just remember, we come from different experiences". RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - Belsnickel - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 02:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't like the term "white privilege", because it does suggest that the person is being handed something or that they should be ashamed of it. It is also often times mischaracterizes as meaning "White people get things, particularly monetary things". I am also not a fan of the term, primarily at this point because it has become such a part of the lexicon of the zeitgeist that it gets thrown around without the real meaning attached. Which leads to the misunderstanding about what it actually is. The term is really something that is more of an academic tool for the social sciences. It's not something that every person is going to recognize or understand, and that includes the people throwing the term around all the time. I have often heard the term ceterus paribus which means, in essence, all else is the same. You're only changing one thing about the comparisons and everything else is constant. It's a part of the idea of privilege but because the term has become such an overused phrase it has really lost that. I do cringe now when I hear the term tossed around outside of a classroom because it's so often just used incorrectly. And I think when the term was really created, because they were thinking of it more for use in the social sciences, they weren't considering the implications of the word choice to the outside community. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - TheLeonardLeap - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 02:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't like the term "white privilege", because it does suggest that the person is being handed something or that they should be ashamed of it. It is also often times mischaracterizes as meaning "White people get things, particularly monetary things". Sorry for Fred-ing your post by pointing out just one tiny part in all of it, but I really need to ask. Have you ever heard of anyone in Africa with the name of De'Shawn/Mo'Nique/etc? I'm pretty certain that those names are not traditional at all, and became a more recent (relatively speaking, the 70s or whatnot) trend. It was part of an effort to intentionally distance themselves from the rest of America, to make themselves unique culturally or whatnot, and then there's complaints that it's distanced themselves from the rest of America. - - - - - - - EDIT: If you refuse to integrate yourself to a country's culture, you're really just creating your own troubles for yourself. Not just America, it applies everywhere. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - xxlt - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument. This is standard operating procedure at the National Review. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - xxlt - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 05:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sorry for Fred-ing your post by pointing out just one tiny part in all of it, but I really need to ask. So, were all those people who went to Oktoberfest Zinzinnati trying to distance themselves from the rest of America. What about the ones that go to the St. Patrick's Day parade? If you name your kid Otto, or Shamus, or Leonid are you telling the rest of America to go **** itself? Just asking. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - xxlt - 09-30-2016 Chris Rock probably best illustrated what white privilege means when he said to an audience, "None of you white people in here would trade places with me, and I'm rich!" Pretty sure those who allege the fallacy of white privilege would nod in agreement that they would not wish to trade places with Chris Rock and be rich if it meant also being black, and in the next breath still maintain white privilege is a fallacy. This is what is commonly known as being stupid, which is different from being ignorant. Ignorance is sort of forgivable and correctable. Stupidity is sort of not. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - bfine32 - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 02:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The fallacy of this article is that is ignores what the concept of privilege actually is. The idea of privilege is that if you take two people in identical situations, save this one thing, one person will have an advantage over the other because of it. Are there other factors that affect people that cause some white people to be worse off than black people? Yes. Are there other privileges that can have more of an impact on a person than white privilege? Absolutely. Does every privilege apply in every situation the same way? No. But that's not what the concept of white privilege is about, and the actual idea behind the concept is what is ignored in the author's argument. If a white male and a black male have equal grades, test scores, and financial situations "people in identical situations". Which is more likely to receive educational grants, scholarships, and loans? White privilege is a lazy, outdated term. I was recently in Appalachian country and I did not see a whole lot of white privilege and I've heard the person most-likely to be the next President wants to take their jobs away. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - Belsnickel - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If a white male and a black male have equal grades, test scores, and financial situations "people in identical situations". Which is more likely to receive educational grants, scholarships, and loans? They are equally likely, actually. But that does not fit the narrative. (09-30-2016, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: White privilege is a lazy, outdated term. So, you use the very same fallacious reasoning to back up your claim that we discussed already? Cool story, bro. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - GMDino - 09-30-2016 (09-30-2016, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If a white male and a black male have equal grades, test scores, and financial situations "people in identical situations". Which is more likely to receive educational grants, scholarships, and loans? https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=educational%20grants%20by%20race Quote:Grant Recipients and Race I really wanted to stay out of this stupid argument....anyone who says whites don't have a generally easier path than minorities is either blind to the world beyond their own horizon or a liar...but the constant moaning and crying that somehow, someway a minority is getting a benefit that a white person isn't is just sad. Carry on. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - TheLeonardLeap - 10-01-2016 (09-30-2016, 06:10 PM)xxlt Wrote: So, were all those people who went to Oktoberfest Zinzinnati trying to distance themselves from the rest of America. What about the ones that go to the St. Patrick's Day parade? If you name your kid Otto, or Shamus, or Leonid are you telling the rest of America to go **** itself? Just asking. Yes, because everyone who goes to Oktoberfest is German, and everyone who goes to St Patrick's Day parade is Irish. Also single festivals or holidays are absolutely the same as living an entire lifestyle of "us vs them". Yup, totally see the logic there. ![]() RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - xxlt - 10-01-2016 (10-01-2016, 01:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, because everyone who goes to Oktoberfest is German, and everyone who goes to St Patrick's Day parade is Irish. So the festival goers are cool, but the parents of kids named Otto or Gunther or Shamus or Fiona or Leonid or Svetlana are living the "us vs them" lifestyle. Got it. ![]() RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - JustWinBaby - 10-01-2016 (09-30-2016, 06:18 PM)xxlt Wrote: Pretty sure those who allege the fallacy of white privilege would nod in agreement that they would not wish to trade places with Chris Rock and be rich if it meant also being black That is complete and utter bullshit. How many white people wouldn't trade places with Michael Jordan? That joke is, what, a false strawman? The premise is that racism isn't only rampant, but so dominant that people wouldn't "tolerate" being black in exchange for fame and fortune. Now THAT is funny. Sure, potentially not being able to get a cab back to my NY penthouse apartment is a real deal breaker.... White privilege is largely an invention of activists in response to failed social and liberal policies....or perhaps in response to their success - the lack of overt racism as society progresses leads to insinuations of hidden racism which can't honestly be proven or disproven. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - treee - 10-01-2016 White privilege exists and is misunderstood by people of all ideological leanings. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - JustWinBaby - 10-01-2016 (10-01-2016, 02:52 AM)treee Wrote: White privilege exists and is misunderstood by people of all ideological leanings. White privilege is essentially a false proxy for wealth privilege RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - Belsnickel - 10-01-2016 Wow, I mean, I get that I didn't sit here and type out a lecture on the topic with sources but it is interesting how those that have often been against the idea of privilege on the past have just ignored the explanation of it and continued their argument as if the common misrepresentation of the concept were actually true. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - xxlt - 10-01-2016 JustWinBaby That is complete and utter bullshit. How many white people wouldn't trade places with Michael Jordan? That joke is, what, a false strawman? The premise is that racism isn't only rampant, but so dominant that people wouldn't "tolerate" being black in exchange for fame and fortune. Now THAT is funny. Sure, potentially not being able to get a cab back to my NY penthouse apartment is a real deal breaker.... White privilege is largely an invention of activists in response to failed social and liberal policies....or perhaps in response to their success - the lack of overt racism as society progresses leads to insinuations of hidden racism which can't honestly be proven or disproven. Funny you mention not being able to get a cab. In NYC in 2016 my white friend hails a cab immediately in front of his building any time day or night. When his clean cut, professional, 40 year old friend who is black tries to hail a cab he can't get one for over an hour, and finally has to call my white friend to come down from his apartment to stop three cabs in five minutes, which all pull away when they realize the ride is for the black guy. Cab four my white friend gets in, then the black friend gets in, then the white friend gets out. This is what a black man has to do in 2016 to get a cab in what some call "the greatest city on earth," New York City. I'm sure if he were rich the indignity would just roll right off. There is some complete and utter bullshit in this thread, and you are slinging it champ. RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - BmorePat87 - 10-01-2016 (09-30-2016, 05:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sorry for Fred-ing your post by pointing out just one tiny part in all of it, but I really need to ask. Which is why I said "Black American" too. You even bolded me saying that. What's funny about this post is that most of the top 10 popular baby names in the US aren't even English in origin. They're Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Spanish, French, or even Persian in origin. Some are Anglicized versions, some are not. The reality is that US culture annexed other groups as they came to the US and included them into the fold, expanding the concept of "White" in the US. We don't teach the concept of the melting pot anymore because it's not accurate. America is more of a "tossed salad" with aspects of the various ethnic groups remaining intact to create one larger America culture. The other funny part about this post is that you're not even disagreeing that name discrimination occurs, you're blaming these people for having different names. Because it's not like white people name their kids different things too. Giving them states, cities, and last names as their first names. Replacing vowels with "Y's". Adding in random X's. Making up fake Irish sounding names. Finding random old English, Scottish, Irish, German, Welsh words. "Oh, you names your daughter 'Brynn'? That means 'hill' in Welsh. Good job." RE: The Fallacy of White Privilege - GMDino - 10-01-2016 (10-01-2016, 02:36 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: That is complete and utter bullshit. How many white people wouldn't trade places with Michael Jordan? That joke is, what, a false strawman? The premise is that racism isn't only rampant, but so dominant that people wouldn't "tolerate" being black in exchange for fame and fortune. Now THAT is funny. Sure, potentially not being able to get a cab back to my NY penthouse apartment is a real deal breaker.... And again this comes down to a definition of "racism". If blacks prefer to live and hang out with black (most of the time) are they "racist"? If an Asian man has white friends and not black one is he a "racist"? But the flippant attitude that somehow the racism is only "insinuated" is just wrong. They invent new words and new rules to cover it up but its still prevalent in society today from the government to private business. I have worked at places where the employees flipped out because a black man filled out an application. Just the application....didn't get hired. Why? They had a black guy there before and he was "lazy". They also had a dozen white guys who were always late for work, got caught sleeping during their shift and/or were fired for doing/dealing drugs in the parking lot. But black people are "lazy"...don't hire "them". I've had conversations with dozen of people who tell me that don't hate blacks! They hate "n***ers! They are different from blacks. A few of those conversations occurred while they were waiting for their welfare check at the post office box and it was running a day late because "those "n***ers" get theirs first because the government thinks they deserve it more!" Its a big country filled with ugly people. Are they a majority? No way. Not even a large minority. But big enough, and in many cases influential enough. One might be running for president right now. Hard to tell if he's all things (sexist, racist, elitist) or just a raging dbag...but either way he's stirring up that minority and they are emboldened. Racism will ALWAYS be a problem. And when it is called out (even if if they are right to call it out) there will be those saying either a) its just s small problem, get over it or b) there is no problem its all in your head. Which are two things that someone who has had the privilege of not dealing with racism int heir lives would say. Maybe even white privilege. |