Quote:RNC declares Pence 'clear winner' of debate before it's even started







It was a hard-fought battle between two tough adversaries, but when all was said and done,Mike Pence emerged as the clear winner of Tuesday night's vice presidential debate, according to the Republican National Committee well before it started.

Wait, what?

A blog posted on the party's website, which was presumably set to publish once the debate was over, declared that "the consensus was clear after the dust settled, Mike Pence was the clear winner of the debate."


A screengrab shows a GOP blog declaring Mike Pence the VP debate winner before it's started. (Photo: Screengrab of Republican National Committee website)

It went on to say that the Indiana governor "made the most of his opportunity to debate Hillary's VP pick Tim Kaine."

Pence, the blog declared confidently, "perfectly shared Trump’s vision to make America great again and that message is resonating with Americans all across the country."

It probably won't come as a surprise to learn that a national political party would be poised to declare its nominee the winner of a debate irrespective of what actually transpires, but usually there's at least the illusion that the verdict was rendered after the debate has concluded.

The page was taken down not long after it started getting noticed by folks on Twitter, but we're going to go out on a limb and predict that GOP officials will have a similar take on their vice presidential nominee's performance later tonight as well.

(10-04-2016, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just peeking in as the wife is watching. Kaine looks like a madman (has that Joker grin); we'll see if it moves the dial.

(10-04-2016, 11:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Kaine: Talking points that quote Trump

Pence: You're running a campaign on insult

Kaine: It's not an insult if You/He said this

Pence: No I/he didn't

Kaine: It's on video

Pence is succeeding in his efforts to completely lie away everything Trump has said because he is remaining soft spoken and calm. Kaine has too much energy and looks too manic.

(10-04-2016, 11:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: My daughter wants to know what is wrong with Pence's hair.  (She's a cosmetologist.)

Also why don't they give the moderator a button to turn their mics off?  Problem solved.

Quote:6 things Trump definitely said that Pence claimed he didn’t
By HENRY C. JACKSON
 
10/05/16 01:40 AM EDT


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Tim Kaine came into the vice presidential debate with a clear goal: make Mike Pence own all of Trump’s most controversial moments.

But Kaine was unable, with Pence successfully parrying his attacks as the debate dissolved into a string of interruptions and contradictions with each of the candidates peppering the other with rhetoric but neither landing a knockout. After, Pence was lauded for his debating acumen, and on efficacy, the strategy scores high.

Scored on accuracy, however, Pence fares far worse. The main tenet of his strategy was to deny that Trump ever said these things to begin with — despite the fact that many of the statements were both real and a part of the public record.

Here are six Trump statements that Pence attempted to tweak, massage or erase all together.

1. Tax Returns. Tim Kaine said: “Donald Trump started this campaign in 2014 and he said, if I run for president, I will absolutely release my taxes. He's broken his first promise.”

Mike Pence said: “He hasn’t broken his promise.”

What Trump’s actually said: In 2014, while sitting down with an Irish television station, Donald Trump said, “If I decide to run for office, I will release my tax returns. Absolutely.” Adding, “I would love to do that.” While saying he will release his tax returns when a federal audit is complete, Trump’s surrogates, including his son, have implied that won’t actually happen. Trump also has said that only the media cares about his tax returns. "As far as my taxes are concerned, the only one that cares is the press, I will tell you,” Trump said in September.

And even the press, I tell you, it's not a big deal."

2. Social Security. Tim Kaine said: “Donald Trump wrote a book and he said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us.”

Mike Pence said: “All Donald Trump and I have said about social security is we're going to meet our obligations to our seniors. That's it.”

What Trump actually said: While describing Social Security in his 2000 book “The America We Deserve” Trump said of Social Security,
“Does the name Ponzi all of a sudden come to mind?”

3. Insults. Tim Kaine said: “Donald Trump during his campaign has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting ... He attacked an Indiana-born federal judge and said he was unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were Mexican. He went after John McCain, a P.O.W., and said he wasn’t a hero because he'd been captured.”

Mike Pence said: “To be honest with you, if Donald Trump had said all the things that you said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said that half of of our supporters were a basket of deplorables.”

What Trump actually said: Trump called “some” Mexican illegal immigrants “rapists” and “criminals,” and some, he assumed, “good people.” He has used a variety of insults for women. Trump came under fire earlier this year for claiming an Indiana-born federal judge’s Mexican ancestry made him unable to fairly hear a case about Trump. And regarding John McCain, Trump said: “He’s not a war hero … He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

4. Putin. Tim Kaine said: “You've got to be tough on Russia. So let’s start with not praising Vladimir Putin as a great leader. Donald Trump and Mike Pence have said he's a great leader.”

Mike Pence said: “No, we haven't.”

What Trump actually said: Trump has repeatedly praised Putin’s strength and has called him “a leader, far more than our president has been.” Pence also said he thought it was “inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country."

5. Nuclear weapons. What Tim Kaine said: “Donald Trump's idea that more nations should get nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea.” He also claimed Trump had said “more nations should get nuclear weapons.”

What Pence said: “Well, he never said that, Senator.”

What Trump actually said: In a March interview with The New York Times and subsequent Republican town hall on CNN, Trump suggested it would be good for Japan and South Korea to have nuclear weapons. “I think maybe it’s not so bad to have Japan — if Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us,” Trump said. Trump stopped short of promoting nuclear weapons for Saudi Arabia, but he did say it was inevitable and that the country needed to be able to defend itself.

6. Abortion. What Tim Kaine said Donald has said “women should be punished ... for making the decision to have an abortion.”

What Pence said: “Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women who made the heart-breaking choice to end a pregnancy.”

What Trump actually said: Trump in March said abortion “is a very serious problem, and it’s a problem we have to decide on …There has to be some form of punishment.” But he quickly walked that statement back saying, “This issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination.”

(10-04-2016, 11:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ain't it a ***** when the guy telling the truth gets flack for having too much energy?  Or the candidate who can actually answer questions catches it for being too prepared?

I guess someone needs that kind of mentality to find a reason to vote for Trump.

(10-05-2016, 07:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This was a shtick for Kaine. He has been criticized for being low energy. And because Clinton can't really hammer Trump because Trump is a bully and if she did it full on she would be bashed because she is a woman, Kaine had to take on that role. Kaine won with those that wanted to see more fire. He won with those people that know the feeling of exasperation when people ignore facts shoved in their face. It won't sway any Trump supporters, but I would not be surprised to see some undecideds move towards Clinton.

(10-05-2016, 09:14 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: One of my favorite exchanges involved Social Security.

Tim Kaine: "Donald Trump wrote a book and he said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us and when Congressman Pence was in Congress, he was the chief cheerleader for the privatization of Social Security."

Mike Pence: "There they go again. OK..."

TK: "Go read the book"

MP: "All Donald Trump and I have said about Social Security is we're going to meet our obligations to our seniors. That's it."

TK: "Go read the book"

MP: "We've said we're going to meet the obligations of Medicare. That's what this campaign is really about, Senator. And I get, this is -- this is the old scare tactic that they roll out..."

TK: "But -- but you have a voting record, Governor."

MP: " And I get all of that. I just, look...There's a question that you asked a little bit earlier that I want to go back "

TK: "I can't believe you won't defend your own voting record"

(10-05-2016, 07:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This was a shtick for Kaine. He has been criticized for being low energy. And because Clinton can't really hammer Trump because Trump is a bully and if she did it full on she would be bashed because she is a woman, Kaine had to take on that role. Kaine won with those that wanted to see more fire. He won with those people that know the feeling of exasperation when people ignore facts shoved in their face. It won't sway any Trump supporters, but I would not be surprised to see some undecideds move towards Clinton.

(10-05-2016, 10:20 AM)Dill Wrote: I didn't like Kaine's interruptions, frankly. I think they hurt more than helped. They are the main reason why so many think Pence won.

However, one goal of the VP debate, maybe a primary goal, is to create talking points for the next news cycle and provide sound bites for political adds and talk shows. The target is voters in the middle, the uncommitted, not die hard Trump voters or Democrats.

I think Kaine may have been successful in creating a lot of "denial" soundbites--Pence denying Trump and he said x, y, and z. These denials can then be played alongside video of Trump saying x, y, and z.   However "poised" Pence may seem, he is shown avoiding questions and lying about the Trump record, all the while loudly admiring his character and family.

(10-05-2016, 10:30 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, Pence was setting up a 2020 bid more than anything. As Roll Call put it in one tweet, "Pence just won the Iowa caucus."