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Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US (/Thread-Violent-Crime-Rates-in-UK-vs-US) Pages:
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Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - GMDino - 07-01-2015 Not to take a meme to seriously but we've had this discussion before so rather than hijack that thread I'll just post this here. ![]() http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/ Quote:The meme includes a lot of figures, so we started out by looking at the United Kingdom and the United States. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-02-2015 Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, why were they not included in the UK for purposes of this debunking? I'm not saying that their inclusion would prove the claim true, but anytime there's such a blatant omission it makes one wonder does it not? RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - StLucieBengal - 07-02-2015 Also the metrics on which crimes are considered violent. There is a big difference between the U.S. and the UK. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - SteelCitySouth - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 02:47 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Also the metrics on which crimes are considered violent. There is a big difference between the U.S. and the UK. correct...the US uses less categories of crimes than the UK...and thus have fewer crimes through omission. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Belsnickel - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 06:33 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: correct...the US uses fewer categories of crimes than the UK...and thus have fewer crimes through omission. ![]() RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - GMDino - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 02:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the UK, why were they not included in the UK for purposes of this debunking? I'm not saying that their inclusion would prove the claim true, but anytime there's such a blatant omission it makes one wonder does it not? From the same link: Quote:We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.) RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - SteelCitySouth - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 07:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: ![]() RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - michaelsean - 07-02-2015 Wait is this actually a thread to debunk a meme? You don't need a thread. We all know the US sucks. It always finishes like 27th on lists of anything good and always behind countries like Rwanda. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - GMDino - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 09:53 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Wait is this actually a thread to debunk a meme? You don't need a thread. We all know the US sucks. It always finishes like 27th on lists of anything good and always behind countries like Rwanda. Not so much to debunk it or say the US sucks...more that we discussed this on the old board so it popped in to my head when I saw the meme. The US is pretty bad at a lot of things. Being violent isn't one of them. ![]() RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Nately120 - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 09:53 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Wait is this actually a thread to debunk a meme? You don't need a thread. We all know the US sucks. It always finishes like 27th on lists of anything good and always behind countries like Rwanda. The meme was just so smug, wrong, and not funny that it had to be debunked! Er, right? RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - GMDino - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 11:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The meme was just so smug, wrong, and not funny that it had to be debunked! Er, right? Eh, statistical memes are rarely 100% accurate. That one (or a similar one) has popped up and it was fresh in my mind. ![]() RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 08:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: From the same link: Yes, I can read thank you very much. Perhpas you can't as it doesn't answer my question, why were they omitted? The reason given is a spurious one at best and seems patently arbitrary. So, once again I'll point out that when someone omits obvious data from a study or comparison it's almost certainly because that data doesn't support their argument. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - fredtoast - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 09:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: Not so much to debunk it or say the US sucks...more that we discussed this on the old board so it popped in to my head when I saw the meme. Don't waste your time responding to him. He has proven that he has no interest in having a grown up discussion about this. Why else would someone make a post like he did? RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - GMDino - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 12:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, I can read thank you very much. Perhpas you can't as it doesn't answer my question, why were they omitted? The reason given is a spurious one at best and seems patently arbitrary. So, once again I'll point out that when someone omits obvious data from a study or comparison it's almost certainly because that data doesn't support their argument. Really? ![]() Anyway they said they omitted them because they were omitted from the meme they were talking about. So they didn't want to add anything if it wasn't already added. As they said (and I'm sure you read) they knew it would add to the crimes...but since those weren't counted in the first place to make the claim why count them now? ![]() RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 12:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Really? Now I have to question your reading comprehension because what they actually said was; Quote:We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately. They "appear" to be? How so, care to explain how that is? Probably not because, as I already stated that reason sounds like a steaming cup of horse shit. Soooo, my question stands. Quote:So they didn't want to add anything if it wasn't already added. Probably because they have no way of knowing if they were already counted or not. Now, common sense would suggest that when you compare the US and UK you would use all of the US and UK. I think they should have omitted the statistics from Chicago, Baltimor and New York because I think they didn't include them in the comparison based on a very careful study of the numbers involved. Oh, and they also omitted the entire state of Alaska, I just decided that as well. RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - michaelsean - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't waste your time responding to him. He has proven that he has no interest in having a grown up discussion about this. Why else would someone make a post like he did? Where did that come from? Proven how? Because I was wondering about needing to debunk a meme? RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Nately120 - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 01:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Proven how? Because I was wondering about needing to debunk a meme? Depends on your preferred definition of "meme" noun: meme; plural noun: memes
I personally think memes are better when they aren't to be taken seriously, and this one looks as though it aims to be taken at face-value...and that face-value hain't so legit. Then again, it could qualify as a meme in the sense that it's just meant to be passed along willy-nilly and any misrepresentation of fact by the right-wing gets retroactively labeled as "satire" anyways. Zing! RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Beaker - 07-02-2015 "This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme." Doesn't this suggest that the premise of the meme was correct, just that the actual numbers were wrong? When the re-calculated they found there was a difference in the numbers, just not as high a difference as the numbers in the meme. I must have missed an earlier post/thread on the subject, but what is the argument/debate here? RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - fredtoast - 07-02-2015 Funny that no one has mentioned that the murder rate in the United States (4.7 per 100K) is almost 5 times higher than in the UK (1 per 100K). Even if violent crimes occur at a higher rate in the UK than in the US they don't end up in death as often because they don't usually involve guns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate RE: Violent Crime Rates in UK vs US - Nately120 - 07-02-2015 (07-02-2015, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny that no one has mentioned that the murder rate in the United States (4.7 per 100K) is almost 5 times higher than in the UK (1 per 100K). Right, it's deceptive stat shifting. It's like the US wanting to make welfare rates "go down" so they shifted more people into "disability" so they can trumpet the successes in a relative sense. The fact that a violent crime can mean a bop on the nose to a limey and having a shotgun unloaded into you to a yank illustrates the difference. |