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+---- Thread: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State (/Thread-Trump-Is-Already-Damaging-the-Ability-of-State)
Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Dill - 01-28-2017
Trickle down Chaos. "Government by impulse" as E.J. Dionne calls it.
Presidential candidates in the past have deadlocked with Congress. We will soon have that with Trump too.
What we haven't had is a paralysis of the executive along with deadlock. That is in the making now, department by department.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/top-state-department-officials-asked-to-leave-by-trump-administration/index.html
The firings leave a huge management hole at the State Department, with a combined 150 years of institutional experience among all of the named officials. The second official echoed that the move appeared to be an effort by the new administration to "clean house" among the State Department's top leadership.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.ed8bd685d343
“It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,” said David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff under Secretary of State John Kerry. “Department expertise in security, management, administrative and consular positions in particular are very difficult to replicate and particularly difficult to find in the private sector.”
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - bfine32 - 01-28-2017
He sure does suck
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 12:24 AM)bdine32 Wrote: He sure does suck
Thank Christian mythological figureheads you don't make snarky comments.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - bfine32 - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 12:32 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Thank Christian mythological figureheads you don't make snarky comments.
Anything about the OP?
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - jason - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 12:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: He sure does suckAgreed
You gotta admit... He is kinda funny though.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 01:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Anything about the OP?
Why do you think I should comment on the OP while you haven't?
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - xxlt - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 12:21 AM)Dill Wrote: Trickle down Chaos. "Government by impulse" as E.J. Dionne calls it.
Presidential candidates in the past have deadlocked with Congress. We will soon have that with Trump too.
What we haven't had is a paralysis of the executive along with deadlock. That is in the making now, department by department.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/top-state-department-officials-asked-to-leave-by-trump-administration/index.html
The firings leave a huge management hole at the State Department, with a combined 150 years of institutional experience among all of the named officials. The second official echoed that the move appeared to be an effort by the new administration to "clean house" among the State Department's top leadership.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.ed8bd685d343
“It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,” said David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff under Secretary of State John Kerry. “Department expertise in security, management, administrative and consular positions in particular are very difficult to replicate and particularly difficult to find in the private sector.”
He will replace them with some terrific people. Really great. Some of the greatest you have ever seen. They're GRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT! #trumpythetiger
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - jason - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 07:39 AM)xxlt Wrote: He will replace them with some terrific people. Really great. Some of the greatest you have ever seen. They're GRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT! #trumpythetigerThey're special, special people... Very special people. The people they are replacing are a disaster. Believe me.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - bfine32 - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 01:52 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Why do you think I should comment on the OP while you haven't?
I was unaware that your goal was to emulate me, please continue to reach for the stars. However; I did comment on the OP.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - CageTheBengal - 01-28-2017
(01-28-2017, 10:16 AM)jason Wrote: They're special, special people... Very special people. The people they are replacing are a disaster. Believe me.
"Yes very special very tremendous hard working people. The people they are replacing you would never even know they were gone because they were so awful. So awful, So truly awful for the American people. Believe me. We are draining the swamp. Did you hear how I was draining the swamp? Well I'm draining the swamp. By the way do you want to see a picture of my inaugural crowd size? I've got some in my wallet! Anyways drain the swamp."
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Rotobeast - 01-28-2017
I don't have a problem with cleaning house, in the State Dept..
A lot of those cats were involved with Hillary's regime change plans.
Good riddance !
Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Dill - 01-29-2017
(01-28-2017, 02:40 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I don't have a problem with cleaning house, in the State Dept..
A lot of those cats were involved with Hillary's regime change plans.
Good riddance !
Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk
Regime change plans??
What sort of people will be replacing those career professionals who have served Bush Clinton Bush and Obama?
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Rotobeast - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 12:41 AM)Dill Wrote: Regime change plans??Libya and the attempt on Syria.
What sort of people will be replacing those career professionals who have served Bush Clinton Bush and Obama?
You're not an email denier, are you ?
Regardless, your concern is warranted.
There was a lot of knowledge leaving that department.
I'm merely question their possible intentions, as many dubious happenings transpired under MANY Secretaries.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Dill - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 07:34 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Libya and the attempt on Syria.
You're not an email denier, are you ?
Regardless, your concern is warranted.
There was a lot of knowledge leaving that department.
I'm merely question their possible intentions, as many dubious happenings transpired under MANY Secretaries.
I guess I missed the "attempt" on Syria, though I know Obama wanted Assad gone.
I don't have a problem with Regime change in Libya.
My worry is that Trump will staff positions with toadies and conspiracy theorists. This will be like Cheney's office of special Plans, only on steroids. People who constantly contest solid intel and diplomatic precedent will suddenly have the power to foul up international relations.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 01-30-2017
(01-28-2017, 11:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I was unaware that your goal was to emulate me, please continue to reach for the stars. However; I did comment on the OP.
(01-29-2017, 03:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's OK, I don't expect you to grasp the concept and/or admit it was a terribly failed attempt at condescension.
If you believe I think you are inferior to me, why would you believe I'm trying to emulate someone who is my inferior?
If you believe I'm trying to emulate you, why would you believe I think you are inferior to me if you believe I want to be like you.
Despite the obvious logical Catch-22, this is one of your more lucid posts.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - PhilHos - 01-31-2017
(01-28-2017, 12:21 AM)Dill Wrote: Trickle down Chaos. "Government by impulse" as E.J. Dionne calls it.
Presidential candidates in the past have deadlocked with Congress. We will soon have that with Trump too.
What we haven't had is a paralysis of the executive along with deadlock. That is in the making now, department by department.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/top-state-department-officials-asked-to-leave-by-trump-administration/index.html
The firings leave a huge management hole at the State Department, with a combined 150 years of institutional experience among all of the named officials. The second official echoed that the move appeared to be an effort by the new administration to "clean house" among the State Department's top leadership.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.ed8bd685d343
“It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,” said David Wade, who served as State Department chief of staff under Secretary of State John Kerry. “Department expertise in security, management, administrative and consular positions in particular are very difficult to replicate and particularly difficult to find in the private sector.”
Soooooooooooooooooooo, is the problem that he got rid of so many people? Or is it that he got rid of so many people without replacing them right away?
'Cause if it's the former (which is what it seems like), I don't really see the problem. Sure, they may be knowledgeable, but that doesn't mean that it's not time for them to move on and/or have new people with new thoughts and ideas in their place. It's kind of like how so many people (myself included) are in favor of term limits for elected officials.
Now, if their vacancies take too long to fill and/or he replaces them with idiots (which I acknowledge is possible and maybe even probable), then I'd be worried.
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Griever - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 01:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Soooooooooooooooooooo, is the problem that he got rid of so many people? Or is it that he got rid of so many people without replacing them right away?
'Cause if it's the former (which is what it seems like), I don't really see the problem. Sure, they may be knowledgeable, but that doesn't mean that it's not time for them to move on and/or have new people with new thoughts and ideas in their place. It's kind of like how so many people (myself included) are in favor of term limits for elected officials.
Now, if their vacancies take too long to fill and/or he replaces them with idiots (which I acknowledge is possible and maybe even probable), then I'd be worried.
i think we all know hes going to fill them with either idiots or yes men
RE: Trump Is Already Damaging the Ability of State - Dill - 01-31-2017
(01-31-2017, 01:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Now, if their vacancies take too long to fill and/or he replaces them with idiots (which I acknowledge is possible and maybe even probable), then I'd be worried.
So far as I know, the people have not been replaced yet. It is not clear who will replace the people lost, or how they will be vetted.
The "chaos" element comes in with the chilling effect the firings have on everyone else, on those who might be promoted from the ranks below.
What I am attempting to do in this thread and others on Trump's executive actions is gage their total effect on the executive. He has clashed with the CIA and FBI over intelligence and publicly denigrated their abilities. He has fired the acting attorney general for "betrayal," and is limiting press access to the White House. He is also quashing the dissent channel in the State Department, whereby, for example, area experts who did not agree with policy could provide the administration with feedback. This is similar to what Cheney did to the State Department and the intel services leading up to the Iraq War--only much sooner and on a much larger, more public scale.
Such behavior shows a preference for loyalty over competence and a desire to punish dissent. That is how bureaucracies are constructed in totalitarian regimes.