I don't think you guys realize HOW GOOD JaMarr Chase is

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-31-2021, 01:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: He is not better then Stephon Diggs.
He is not better then DaVante Adams
He is not better then DeAndre Hopkins
He is not better then Tyreek Hill

How the hell do you know?

He could better than every single one of them.  He could be worse than every single one of them.  None of us will know for sure until about 10 years into the future.

He projects to be a very good receiver in the NFL.  That's all we really know right now.  And that same thought can be applied to every single position as well.  

You know, I could do the same exact thing you just did with Sewell, right?

[Rubekahn29]

(03-31-2021, 01:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: hey guys if nobody on your offensive line makes the pro bowl, that means they sucked

andrew whitworth only made the pro bowl 3 times because all of those other times he sucked

Andre Smith wasnt a good right tackle in his prime because he didnt get voted into the pro bowl

amazing logic

Oh so they don’t have to be some amazing generational talent that people claim Sewell is to be successful? So why not draft a 2nd rounder because he likely good be good as well since your standards are low for being great. Again, you keep playing both sides. Not strong arguments by you.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Bateman is 6'2", 210, and ran 4.39.

And is a wonderful route runner with great hands.

[bengaloo]

(03-31-2021, 01:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: Upgrading from disaster to bad is an upgrade. I get it. But is it worthy of complacency? 

No you are right, its not worthy of complacency, but I think we will keep building the OL in the draft and maybe more in FA. There will be some really good OLmen in the 2-3 rounds, especially at OG which is where we need it the most. But none of that means we wont draft Sewell or Slater. We dont know yet, but it does look more likely that we will take Chase at this point. We will just have to wait and see I figure. 

We also have to factor in the growth of Burrow. He will get better at getting rid of the ball. Some of the sacks were on him, as weird as that sounds, but its true.

[Frank Booth]

hey guys I cant name anyone on that 2008 cardinals team because the offensive weapons were the only guys that mattered

Karlos Dansby? Who? He never made a pro bowl, so I dont know him. I cant even tell ya anyone else on that defense

All I know is wide receivers

[Rubekahn29]

Did you know that it’s okay to like all three of these prospects, see upside in all three, and not disparage people for liking one more than you do?

[jj22]

Can we all at least agree to not make conclusions if they pass on Sewell until the end of Day 2. I for one like everyone else will be fine with any of the 3 at pick 5. I will however worry about the line and if we have fallen victim to the bells and whistles of the sexy pick at 5 once again over protection.

We all love the excitement of adding Chase/Pitt. I for one just don't think the FA period fell (for whoever is to blame, even if no one is to blame) in our favor enough to justify the "sexy" pick logically.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-31-2021, 01:41 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Or, maybe he already did. You know, at LSU.

I guess you missed Justin Jefferson’s rookie season in Minnesota...

[Murdock2420]

(03-31-2021, 01:40 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Or MAYBE it’s because their offensive linemen that were in that Super Bowl team had 0 pro bowls and 0 all-pros, no HOFers? Think that could be why I didn’t know them? Only one was drafted in what today would be day 1 of the draft.

They were drafted as follows:

1 first round
1 second round
1 third round
1 sixth round
1 UDFA

None played more than 7 seasons.

Were they okay? Yes, but no, they were not great. How about you chill on your arrogance and understand that differences of opinions doesn’t mean someone doesn’t have knowledge of something. I guarantee you knew none of that information until I just posted it. You’re inability to debate is clearly showing.

You can't treat what other teams do in successfully finding late round talent as a measuring stick for the Bengals.

Again, you have Mike Brown.

Now, follow me on this. How many players have left and talked about how different the culture is on other teams. How other teams are committed to winning.

In this example, you are talking about the Cardinals. Remember the comments from Carson Palmer when he left here and ended up in Arizona after Oakland?


"And I then went and played for Michael Bidwill in Arizona, and Michael was all about winning. Everything was about winning. The culture was about winning. And we - very fortunately - the year before I got to Arizona, I think they won a couple games, or three or four games. And Michael Bidwill dug his feet in the ground, and I saw an owner say we're gonna go after this. And we're gonna do what it takes to win. And at the end of the day when owners do what it takes to win and have that type of mentality - and everybody's on board - you know I saw it right before my eyes. Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins - whatever it was - those next three years. And when the organization is completely behind doing what it takes to win, and you've got the right players, then that's the recipe for a Super Bowl."




So the issue here is the Brown family... as it has been since Paul died. We have the smallest scouting department in the league. We ask out coaches to do double duty as scouts.

Do you trust this team... Duke Tobin, Zac Taylor, and the one or two family members acting as scouts to find the hidden gems in later rounds like other teams do?

That is why a lot of people are just so in on Sewell is the right pick and anything else is wrong. If they are going to miss... miss on the WR in round two. If you miss on the OL guy in round two or round three, your season is over when Burrow goes down again. If you miss on a TE or WR in round two or three, it's not nearly as big of a loss (unless it is a John Ross guy that just can't catch.) Jerome Simpson was a huge miss... but still caught passes and didn't get the QB injured.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-31-2021, 01:45 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: hey guys I cant name anyone on that 2008 cardinals team because the offensive weapons were the only guys that mattered

Karlos Dansby? Who? He never made a pro bowl, so I dont know him. I cant even tell ya anyone else on that defense

All I know is wide receivers

I think I speak for a good percentage of the board (minimum 60%):  Can you please shut the eff up?

Good God, you're annoying.  Every damn comment is an insult, or it's sarcastically mocking someone else.

Who the hell are you?  You're some expert with your 2 and 3 sentence replies, that feature absolutely little to no substance?  And this isn't a recent trend, it sums up pretty much your entire existence on the board.  You offer very, very little in actually generating conversation or debate.  You're a passive-aggressive, incredibly rude nobody.

Again, do us all a favor and shut the hell up.  Go start your own thread about OL and OL alone.  Quit shitting on people because they may want to take a Guard in the 2nd round vs. an OT in the 1st.  There's worse things in this world that you can get worked up about.

/endrant

[Murdock2420]

(03-31-2021, 01:42 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How the hell do you know?

He could better than every single one of them.  He could be worse than every single one of them.  None of us will know for sure until about 10 years into the future.

He projects to be a very good receiver in the NFL.  That's all we really know right now.  And that same thought can be applied to every single position as well.  

You know, I could do the same exact thing you just did with Sewell, right?

Yes... and it should be done. Again my point wasn't too pee on your man-crush Wes... it was too point out how dumb it is to call a guy with zero NFL snaps a generational talent that implies he is better then any current NFL player.

Generational Talent means - Once in a lifetime type of player. Those guys... are Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, guys who came on the field and completely changed the position and were just something no one was ready for or had seen before.

Sewell, Chase... going to be really good pro's baring the career ending injury to whichever one we pick. 

But neither is going to be a guy that the NFL hasn't seen the talent level of before.

[Fulcher_33]

(03-31-2021, 01:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sigh

Let me go ahead and say this one more time for the deaf people in the back.

Ja'Marr Chase is NOT a generational talent.

He is a good to great WR prospect. He has 1 amazing year of football at the college level. I literally talked to Nico about this last night and I'm starting to accept the Bengals are going to pick him.

HOWEVER!!

Generational talents are not in every single draft. By the term, they are once a generation... 10 plus years. Chase is nothing the NFL hasn't seen before.

He is not better then Stephon Diggs.
He is not better then DaVante Adams
He is not better then DeAndre Hopkins
He is not better then Tyreek Hill

He is a really good WR prospect who has zero NFL experience and may not be better then Jaylen Waddle... only time will tell.

Now, having said all this, the Bengals are going to take him at 5 and pass on Sewell. So, we need to start accepting this and hope he is closer to an A.J. then he is to a John Ross.

Honestly we don't know IF Chase will be better then those guys you named. 

As for Diggs he had ONE fantastic season (last year). Before that he had 2 solid years with Minnesota and 3 very pedestrian seasons. Now had you said Michael Thomas 

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-31-2021, 01:45 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Did you know that it’s okay to like all three of these prospects, see upside in all three, and not disparage people for liking one more than you do?

[Frank Booth]

(03-31-2021, 01:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I think I speak for a good percentage of the board (minimum 60%):  Can you please shut the eff up?

Good God, you're annoying.  Every damn comment is an insult, or it's sarcastically mocking someone else.

Who the hell are you?  You're some expert with your 2 and 3 sentence replies, that feature absolutely little to no substance?  And this isn't a recent trend, it sums up pretty much your entire existence on the board.  You offer very, very little in actually generating conversation or debate.  You're a passive-aggressive, incredibly rude nobody.

Again, do us all a favor and shut the hell up.  Go start your own thread about OL and OL alone.  Quit shitting on people because they may want to take a Guard in the 2nd round vs. an OT in the 1st.  There's worse things in this world that you can get worked up about.

/endrant

I already said they can take a guard or center in the 2nd and I'd be ok with that if they decide to pick Chase at 5

but there's a better and safer option here, especially knowing that Reiff is 30 and on a 1 year contract. And knowing Jonah may have an injury issue.

And I think I provide plenty insight. Im giving facts about Boldin and the teams he played for, how teams with mediocre offensive lines can win the super bowl if they have an elite defense, and telling you that the Burrow tape in 2020 doesnt lie. He's an elite talent. You're just referencing numbers. Numbers will have you believing Tannehill is an elite quarterback.

lighten up, neighbor

[Rubekahn29]

(03-31-2021, 01:49 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You can't treat what other teams do in successfully finding late round talent as a measuring stick for the Bengals.

Again, you have Mike Brown.

Now, follow me on this. How many players have left and talked about how different the culture is on other teams. How other teams are committed to winning.

In this example, you are talking about the Cardinals. Remember the comments from Carson Palmer when he left here and ended up in Arizona after Oakland?


"And I then went and played for Michael Bidwill in Arizona, and Michael was all about winning. Everything was about winning. The culture was about winning. And we - very fortunately - the year before I got to Arizona, I think they won a couple games, or three or four games. And Michael Bidwill dug his feet in the ground, and I saw an owner say we're gonna go after this. And we're gonna do what it takes to win. And at the end of the day when owners do what it takes to win and have that type of mentality - and everybody's on board - you know I saw it right before my eyes. Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins - whatever it was - those next three years. And when the organization is completely behind doing what it takes to win, and you've got the right players, then that's the recipe for a Super Bowl."




So the issue here is the Brown family... as it has been since Paul died. We have the smallest scouting department in the league. We ask out coaches to do double duty as scouts.

Do you trust this team... Duke Tobin, Zac Taylor, and the one or two family members acting as scouts to find the hidden gems in later rounds like other teams do?

That is why a lot of people are just so in on Sewell is the right pick and anything else is wrong. If they are going to miss... miss on the WR in round two. If you miss on the OL guy in round two or round three, your season is over when Burrow goes down again. If you miss on a TE or WR in round two or three, it's not nearly as big of a loss (unless it is a John Ross guy that just can't catch.) Jerome Simpson was a huge miss... but still caught passes and didn't get the QB injured.

Solid argument. I believe however even over the past 10 or even 20 years, our success largely hinged on an okay to above average line and explosive #1 WR in AJ and Chad more so than any absolute stud of a Oline. I also don’t think we need to find a “hidden gem” at pick 38 as there will be plenty of IOL there. That’s my opinion. I’d rather Chase or Pitts with 2nd OG but if they go Sewell, I’d understand and also be pumped.

[Murdock2420]

(03-31-2021, 01:59 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Solid argument. I believe however even over the past 10 or even 20 years, our success largely hinged on an okay to above average line and explosive #1 WR in AJ and Chad more so than any absolute stud of a Oline. I also don’t think we need to find a “hidden gem” at pick 38 as there will be plenty of IOL there. That’s my opinion. I’d rather Chase or Pitts with 2nd OG but if they go Sewell, I’d understand and also be pumped.

The thing with being a Bengal fan... you have to accept that if they pick Chase, he'll be good (or injured) but Waddle will be better (see A.J. and Julio) while Sewell will be a HoF.

If they pick Sewell, he'll be good (or injured) but Slater will be better and Chase will be the HoF guy.

It's the theory of Bengalology. It's like Murphy's law, only it makes the guy we don't pick better.

[Rubekahn29]

(03-31-2021, 01:49 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You can't treat what other teams do in successfully finding late round talent as a measuring stick for the Bengals.

Again, you have Mike Brown.

Now, follow me on this. How many players have left and talked about how different the culture is on other teams. How other teams are committed to winning.

In this example, you are talking about the Cardinals. Remember the comments from Carson Palmer when he left here and ended up in Arizona after Oakland?


"And I then went and played for Michael Bidwill in Arizona, and Michael was all about winning. Everything was about winning. The culture was about winning. And we - very fortunately - the year before I got to Arizona, I think they won a couple games, or three or four games. And Michael Bidwill dug his feet in the ground, and I saw an owner say we're gonna go after this. And we're gonna do what it takes to win. And at the end of the day when owners do what it takes to win and have that type of mentality - and everybody's on board - you know I saw it right before my eyes. Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins - whatever it was - those next three years. And when the organization is completely behind doing what it takes to win, and you've got the right players, then that's the recipe for a Super Bowl."




So the issue here is the Brown family... as it has been since Paul died. We have the smallest scouting department in the league. We ask out coaches to do double duty as scouts.

Do you trust this team... Duke Tobin, Zac Taylor, and the one or two family members acting as scouts to find the hidden gems in later rounds like other teams do?

That is why a lot of people are just so in on Sewell is the right pick and anything else is wrong. If they are going to miss... miss on the WR in round two. If you miss on the OL guy in round two or round three, your season is over when Burrow goes down again. If you miss on a TE or WR in round two or three, it's not nearly as big of a loss (unless it is a John Ross guy that just can't catch.) Jerome Simpson was a huge miss... but still caught passes and didn't get the QB injured.

I would also argue, that it’s not like Palmer did far and away better in AZ than Cincinnati. Yeah he won a playoff game in 2015 but followed it up with 6 turnovers in one game. So there’s that.

[Sled21]

Coach Taylor is going to Kyle Pitt's Pro Day. My thoughts are that's probably in case Chase is gone. (which it does not appear will be the case, fingers crossed). Chase, Sewell, Pitts, Smith.... all winners, and although everyone has their favorite, there is no wrong pick here. But none of us are standing behind Center next season, so I say give Burrow who he wants. If he wants Chase, so be it, give him Chase.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-31-2021, 01:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I already said they can take a guard or center in the 2nd and I'd be ok with that if they decide to pick Chase at 5

but there's a better and safer option here, especially knowing that Reiff is 30 and on a 1 year contract. And knowing Jonah may have an injury issue.

And I think I provide plenty insight. Im giving facts about Boldin and the teams he played for, how teams with mediocre offensive lines can win the super bowl if they have an elite defense, and telling you that the Burrow tape in 2020 doesnt lie. He's an elite talent. You're just referencing numbers. Numbers will have you believing Tannehill is an elite quarterback.

lighten up, neighbor

Are you kidding me?  Is this a joke?

You literally called people idiots and morons within the last hour.  You specifically asked me if I even actually watched the games, of if I know how to watch football.  You've continually insulted those who prefer Chase or Pitts for days and days now.

Now you're telling me to lighten up?

Look dude, none of this is that hard.  You got an opinion, or you think an approach is wrong, then share it, give your reasons.  There's absolutely no need to behave in the way you and a few others have recently.

Just because someone wants Chase or Pitts does NOT mean they don't value the OL, or they're an idiot, or a moron, or anything else.  These are all super talented and prospects, and there's a lot of different ways to build out this team over the next few years.

Some of ya'll need to really calm the hell down, and quit ragging on people for having a different approach to the draft.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-31-2021, 12:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This guy is a GENERATIONAL talent at WR. He's AJ Green with more speed and better measurables (that just came in from his pro day). There are currently like 4 guys in the NFL that have his measurables and ability. His pre existing chemistry/relationship with Burrow is just a cherry on top of the Sunday.

He's not Tee Higgins - he's on a completely different level.

I get protecting Burrow, but the Bengals HAVE to draft this guy with the 5th pick. He's just too much of a game changing talent not too. We should all be SALIVATING at the though of an offense consisting of Burrow, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and...JaMarr Chase. It would easily be a top 5 unit in the NFL.

NFL teams are built around game changing talent and playmakers. Yes, Sewell would be a great addition and sure help with protecting Burrow, but you only have so many chances to draft a talent like Chase over the course of history. The Bengals did it with AJ Green...we need to do it with JaMarr Chase.

As I have been saying, all for Chase as I agree he will be an instant upgrade to our passing game and is in my opinion the best
WR in this class especially since he played with Burrow on top of it. Would love Pitts, Chase or Sewell at 5 all great options.

Thinking it will be Chase though and we go after an OT or Guard in the 2nd.