O-line: start the five best now or the five with the best potential?

[BigPapaKain]

(08-19-2021, 07:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So are you going to give backups reps with the #1 offense in practice once the season starts?

If you have a guy who is a superior player but just needs playing time to develop it would be stupid to stick with the inferior player all year.

NFL coaches understand this.  That is often why they let rookie QBs start over experienced vets.

Find us an actual NFL coach and I'll listen to them about starting potential over proof.

As it stands, I wouldn't trust this coaching staff to make a decision about a house plant.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 02:13 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Find us an actual NFL coach and I'll listen to them about starting potential over proof.

As it stands, I wouldn't trust this coaching staff to make a decision about a house plant.

Eh, I trust Pollack, the other coaches? Not so much.

[BigPapaKain]

(08-20-2021, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I trust Pollack, the other coaches? Not so much.

The best turd polishers in the world can still only do so much.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2021, 02:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I trust Pollack, the other coaches? Not so much.

We actually have some very good coaches on this team.

[*ochocincos*]

I voted best current 5, but only because we're starting the season.
If the Bengals are out of playoff contention, I'm in favor of going with potential since the rest of the games don't matter from a Win-Loss standpoint.

[3wt]

(08-19-2021, 01:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Isn't that what they tried with Jordan? No, I say start the best 5 now, and let the others grow into the job.... when Pollack sees they have surpassed the vet, then they get the job.

This

[KillerGoose]

(08-20-2021, 03:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We actually have some very good coaches on this team.

I have a buddy who coached at the NCAA level and is now a HS coach at a big school down in Texas. I was asking him some questions regarding the NFL and he had some interesting talking points.

His take was that every single coach in the NFL “know their shit” and are fantastic coaches. What determines how good a coach is is their personnel, ability to build a culture/good rapport with players and ability to adjust mid game. He also mentioned how easily your scheme is understood and digested by players.

He mentioned that the NFL is such a win now league that many coaches don’t get the time necessary to see whether or not someone pans out. He also said that at the end of the day “Jon’s and Joe’s win games.” Now, he isn’t an NFL coach but he has significant coaching experience between the NCAA and big time Texas football (basically college football) and I thought this was an interesting take that I never really thought about. Aside from personnel, the biggest things a coordinator deals with is whether your players like you or not and whether you can adjust on the fly.

The reason I bring all of this up is because it got me thinking about Cincinnati and the reports of certain defensive players not getting along with Lou, the opinion around Turner and overall lack of talent the team has had and it made sense. He also mentioned that something that new coaches do early on is build their culture and anyone who doesn’t fit or like it, they’re canned. That got me thinking about Dunlap.

Hopefully with the talent infusion, return of Pollack and maybe a change in approach by Lou will see some better results.

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2021, 01:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Isn't that what they tried with Jordan? 

I don't remember any vet that was better than Jordan.

Boling's surprise retirement plus losing Jonah before the season even started really screwed up our O-line that year.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 03:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We actually have some very good coaches on this team.

Pollack, Hobby and Troy Walters all sound more than capable. 

That last Bucs game even made me think Zac and Lou have a chance.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2021, 04:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pollack, Hobby and Troy Walters all sound more than capable. 

That last Bucs game even made me think Zac and Lou have a chance.

I was thinking more along the lines of position coaches, like Hobby, Pollack, Golden, etc. But is anyone going to say Simmons is not a good coach? And yes, we had 2 players who didn't like Lou and are gone now, but everyone else seems to be buying in and improving. Point is, a blanket statement bemoaning Bengals coaches is a disservice, because as I said, we have some good ones.

[GreenCornBengal]

I feel like at 4/5 positions you have best now and best potential for the current year.

Williams — best now, best potential for LT
Reiff — best now, best potential for RT
Spain — best now, best potential for LG
Hopkins — best now, best potential at C if healthy.

The only real question is RG which from what I hear nobody has really stood out. I suppose the question is XSF (best now… maybe?) vs Smith/Jordan. With none of those guys being noticeably better than the others, I think you choose potential. I’m leaning Smith but also don’t like rookies in there. I think Jordan will get the start, which will bother some around here.

[XenoMorph]

(08-20-2021, 04:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of position coaches, like Hobby, Pollack, Golden, etc. But is anyone going to say Simmons is not a good coach? And yes, we had 2 players who didn't like Lou and are gone now, but everyone else seems to be buying in and improving. Point is, a blanket statement bemoaning Bengals coaches is a disservice, because as I said, we have some good ones.

Simmons has been solid for a long time....    i know STs coaches dont often get the nod to HC... But with the success in Baltimore i figured more would have had a shot by now.

[jwalker3853]

(08-20-2021, 01:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The only problem with that idea is that the O-line is very dependent on chemistry and how well they work together,  more so than any other position group.  Shuffling in guys later on or making changes during the season is not ideal.

Injuries are going to happen and occasionally someone else my filter in to give one of the starters a rest.   That sort of things is expected and depending on play - could result in a new starter.  

The way I look at it is that if the person who comes in due to injury or is giving someone a rest struggles or the synergy is wrong (i.e. the unit or part of the OL starts struggling) then they aren't going to win a starting job and likely won't be the 1st person off the bench for that particular spot any longer.   

I think the key is that while there is synergy / chemistry between the starting 5, that synergy somewhat encompases the entire unit.   They are all watching film together, receiving the game plans together, etc.   In an ideal world, they all hang out together also.   Playing/practicing together definitely solidifies things, but I am pretty sure they can handle a swap in / new starter provided it is handled correctly.   

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2021, 04:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't remember any vet that was better than Jordan.

Boling's surprise retirement plus losing Jonah before the season even started really screwed up our O-line that year.  

Yep.

The expected starters that offseason were:
LT - Jonah
LG - Boling
C - Price
RG - Miller
RT - Hart

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 04:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of position coaches, like Hobby, Pollack, Golden, etc. But is anyone going to say Simmons is not a good coach? And yes, we had 2 players who didn't like Lou and are gone now, but everyone else seems to be buying in and improving. Point is, a blanket statement bemoaning Bengals coaches is a disservice, because as I said, we have some good ones.

True, I like Golden too and Simmons has been one of the best ST's coaches in the NFL for years..

[BritishBengal]

When would you ever not start the best players?! Not sure I understand this thread.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-20-2021, 03:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I have a buddy who coached at the NCAA level and is now a HS coach at a big school down in Texas. I was asking him some questions regarding the NFL and he had some interesting talking points.

His take was that every single coach in the NFL “know their shit” and are fantastic coaches. What determines how good a coach is is their personnel, ability to build a culture/good rapport with players and ability to adjust mid game. He also mentioned how easily your scheme is understood and digested by players.

He mentioned that the NFL is such a win now league that many coaches don’t get the time necessary to see whether or not someone pans out. He also said that at the end of the day “Jon’s and Joe’s win games.” Now, he isn’t an NFL coach but he has significant coaching experience between the NCAA and big time Texas football (basically college football) and I thought this was an interesting take that I never really thought about. Aside from personnel, the biggest things a coordinator deals with is whether your players like you or not and whether you can adjust on the fly.

The reason I bring all of this up is because it got me thinking about Cincinnati and the reports of certain defensive players not getting along with Lou, the opinion around Turner and overall lack of talent the team has had and it made sense. He also mentioned that something that new coaches do early on is build their culture and anyone who doesn’t fit or like it, they’re canned. That got me thinking about Dunlap.

Hopefully with the talent infusion, return of Pollack and maybe a change in approach by Lou will see some better results.

This post isn't getting enough attention.

That is a GREAT POV and yes, your buddy's pedigree is more-than sufficient to make that call (especially if you follow Ben Baby).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 06:46 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: This post isn't getting enough attention.

That is a GREAT POV and yes, your buddy's pedigree is more-than sufficient to make that call (especially if you follow Ben Baby).

That was a great post by Killer Goose. I missed it the first time as sometimes I don't read the really long posts.

Glad you brought it to my attention Truck.

[KillerGoose]

(08-20-2021, 06:46 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: This post isn't getting enough attention.

That is a GREAT POV and yes, your buddy's pedigree is more-than sufficient to make that call (especially if you follow Ben Baby).

Thanks Truck. At first glance, some of it may seem like “well duh” but it really makes sense when you hear it from someone with a background in football. It also explains why Zac is getting a longer leash despite the results not being there. The players really like him and are buying into what he is building, but some concessions were made this past offseason with some of the coaching changes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 06:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Thanks Truck. At first glance, some of it may seem like “well duh” but it really makes sense when you hear it from someone with a background in football. It also explains why Zac is getting a longer leash despite the results not being there. The players really like him and are buying into what he is building, but some concessions were made this past offseason with some of the coaching changes.

Zac has always been likeable so yeah, that could be a big reason why he still here. Pollack is also very likeable and I get the feeling
so are Hobby and Golden. Lou's D sure looked very good last week, maybe his guys are finally here. Could be possible.

Turner was definitely not liked.