What Vegas and the National Media is not talking about

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-26-2022, 05:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's how you know it's because of luck!

[J24]

I still don't understand what the Chiefs were doing all out blitzing on a 3rd and 27!

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-26-2022, 05:36 PM)J24 Wrote: I still don't understand what the  Chiefs were doing all out blitzing on a 3rd and 27!

Hubris.

[*bfine32*]

(08-26-2022, 05:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the last I am going to mention it, but if it all just talent and coaching we should be doing it every time this year.

So I guess we will see who was right.

[Bengalholic]

(08-26-2022, 05:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: False equivalency. 

Aaron Donald has been making that same play consistently for years.  So, no, it did not look like a fluke when he made that play.  But none of the best QBs in the league have converted a 3rd-and-25+ in the last 4 years before Burrow did it.

Same thing with our defense "shutting down" Mahommes for the second half of the Championship game.  Our pass defense finished in the bottom half of the league in the regular season.  Mahommes had burnt them for a 113.1 rating in the regular season and a ridiculous (almost perfect) 149.9 rating in the first half of the Championship game.  That does not look like a great defense shutting down a great player with "talent and coaching" because that same "talent and coaching" had been there all year with much different results.  

Except that the 2nd half says the total opposite. Coaches made adjustments. Players stepped up and made big plays. You're defeating your own arguments with this logic. They literally made a great QB look like an overwhelmed rookie in the 2nd half. 

At this point, you're just putting your head in the sand and refusing to give the Bengals coaches and players any credit.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-26-2022, 06:24 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Except that the 2nd half says the total opposite. Coaches made adjustments. Players stepped up and made big plays. You're defeating your own arguments with this logic. They literally made a great QB look like an overwhelmed rookie in the 2nd half. 

At this point, you're just putting your head in the sand and refusing to give the Bengals coaches and players any credit.

Fred still thinks adjustments are journalistic jargon...

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2022, 06:24 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: . 

At this point, you're just putting your head in the sand and refusing to give the Bengals coaches and players any credit.

It’s going to be interesting his response the great upcoming season. He’s not a fan.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2022, 06:24 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Except that the 2nd half says the total opposite. 

You completely missed my point.

If a baseball player strikes out 100 times then hits a home run you can't claim that one at bat determines how good a hitter he is.  Sure, he had one good swing and that took some talent, but very few people are going to believe that he is really a great home run hitter because he did it once.

That is why we have the saying "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while."

[grampahol]

If you want the definition of fluke it's coming in dead last place when Joe Borrow is entering the NFL draft  then almost coming in last with Jammar Chase entering..  I don't think they exactly planned  to stink up the league for two years..Maybe they planned to be the laughing stock for 30 years, but I kind of doubt it..

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2022, 11:29 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s going to be interesting his response the great upcoming season. He’s not a fan.

You should not take it personal just because I make you look silly sometimes.

No need to make posts that are nothing but lies about me.

(08-23-2022, 11:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is possible to look at last season without blinders and still predict the Bengals to be great this year.

(08-26-2022, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all let me remind everyone that I am very high on the Bengals this year.  We should have an elite offense and a defense that might not be elite, but should be plenty good enough to win a championship with this offense.

You all may not like it that a lot of analysts still question the Bengals.  But they would do the same for any other long-time loser who did what we did last year.

[grampahol]

Now freddy..you know that logic has absolutely no business being on this forum. Fairy tales and speculation perhaps but logic?  Why, in some people's minds logic is akin to throwing acid in their faces!  How DARE YOU? 

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2022, 01:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You should not take it personal just because I make you look silly sometimes.

No need to make posts that are nothing but lies about me.

You are right I should have said you are not a fan of this staff and never show them any credit.

[sandwedge]

(08-26-2022, 05:11 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: You do realize that there are many factors at play in a 3rd and extremely long that play in the defenses favor. It requires perfect execution to convert in that kind of situation, or a something crazy like a defender falling down and leaving a wide open receiver.

Why is it so hard for you to admit the obvious...that is was a great pass and catch in that particular situation that resulted in a critical conversion? It's not going to go that way every time, but in that instance, it was perfect execution.

2 things here:
1) From everything I have read and seen, Joe and Chase practice that back shoulder throw a lot. Perfect throw and a hell of a catch!
2) KC should have had at least a PI call against them on that play.

[Bengalholic]

(08-27-2022, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You completely missed my point.

If a baseball player strikes out 100 times then hits a home run you can't claim that one at bat determines how good a hitter he is.  Sure, he had one good swing and that took some talent, but very few people are going to believe that he is really a great home run hitter because he did it once.

That is why we have the saying "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while."

I'll ask again.

Why is it so hard for you to just acknowledge they did a helluva job shutting down Mahomes in the 2nd half...instead of using these silly extreme analogies to discredit what the coaches and players accomplished in that game, and the playoff run in general?

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2022, 02:14 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You are right I should have said you are not a fan of this staff and never show them any credit.

It is complicated to judge how much of a coaches success is due to the talent of his players.  It is like trying to judge how much of a running backs success is based on his offensive line.  

Last year before the season started I made a thread about that subject.  I claimed that a team's success in the final 2 minutes of a half had a lot to do with coaching.  At the end of the season I pulled that thread back up and gave Zac effusive praise for the way his team was able to finish halves.

If you find any thread where people were attacking Zac's play calling you will find me defending his play calling because the O-line limited what he could do.  The only time I became somewhat critical was late in the season when it had been proven that we simply could not run in short yardage situations I suggested we just go five wide and throw for it.

In 2020 when a lot of fans were trashing Zac for having Burrow throw so much behind such a bad line I defended him by pointing out that Burrow throwing was our only hope.  After the 2020 season I defended Zac against the fans who claimed he should be fired because his team had just been decimated by injuries.

So I do give Zac praise when he deserves it.  His 2020 team posted a string of victories over tough opponents to get to a Super Bowl and still had a chance to win it all on the final play.  Even though all those wins ended on "toss up" plays that could have gone either way his team still had to play well to be that close against good teams at the.

I wonder how much of our success last year was due to Burrow and how much to Zac.  But Zac didn't do anything to mess it up or lose games, and all those wins go on his head coaching record.  So I am happy to roll with Zac until it stops working.

Lou I still have some doubts about. 

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2022, 02:59 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll ask again. Why is it so hard for you to just acknowledge they did a helluva job shutting down Mahomes in the 2nd half...instead of using these silly extreme analogies to discredit what the coaches and players accomplished? 

Because it was more Mahommes screwing up and choking than our defense shutting down all of his options.  If we do the exact same thing against him next game there is a good chance he does not play as poorly.  A little film study with Reid will show him what he missed.  But a lot of people here are acting like Lou invented some new scheme that will transform how the league plays against Mahommes.  

[*bfine32*]

(08-27-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because it was more Mahommes screwing up and choking than our defense shutting down all of his options.  If we do the exact same thing against him next game there is a good chance he does not play as poorly.  A little film study with Reid will show him what he missed.  But a lot of people here are acting like Lou invented some new scheme that will transform how the league plays against Mahommes.  

What have we here?

Quote:It can sometimes become difficult to tell the difference between a troll and someone who just genuinely wants to argue about a topic. However, here are a few tell-tale signs that someone is actively trolling.


Off-topic remarks:
Refusal to acknowledge evidence:
Dismissive, condescending tone:
Use of unrelated images or memes:
Seeming obliviousness:

[Bengalholic]

(08-27-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because it was more Mahommes screwing up and choking than our defense shutting down all of his options.  If we do the exact same thing against him next game there is a good chance he does not play as poorly.  A little film study with Reid will show him what he missed.  But a lot of people here are acting like Lou invented some new scheme that will transform how the league plays against Mahommes.  

Damn, you really do just flat out refuse to give the Bengals any credit for that 2nd half. Very strange, to say the least. Hell, I've seen hardcore Chiefs fans willing to give Lou and the defense far more credit than you have.

[*Synric*]

(08-27-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because it was more Mahommes screwing up and choking than our defense shutting down all of his options.  If we do the exact same thing against him next game there is a good chance he does not play as poorly.  A little film study with Reid will show him what he missed.  But a lot of people here are acting like Lou invented some new scheme that will transform how the league plays against Mahommes.  

The Bengals were rotating their DBs in the back end which was confusing Mahomes post snap dropping a lineman into the shallow windows. Andy Reid failed to adjust to what Lou was doing he should have been attacking with the run game and Mahomes struggled to read the coverages.


Bolded is exactly what happened between games 1 and 2. Lou adjusted in the second half of the first game and was able to hold off KC long enough for the Bengals to take control. He used the same style in the first half of the AFC Championship but Reid was ready for it. Lou did an excellent job changing it up in the second half.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2022, 03:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Damn, you really do just flat out refuse to give the Bengals any credit for that 2nd half. Very strange, to say the least. Hell, I've seen hardcore Chiefs fans willing to give Lou and the defense far more credit than you have.

It is not so strange if you watch the video I posted.  Mahommes had running lanes in the second half.  Mahommes had open receivers in the second half.  Our defense did not "shut down" all his options.  He just played poorly and made a lot of bad decisions.

For years we saw how Dalton played in playoff games.  How many people here were giving all the credit to opposing DC's for coming up with schemes to shut down Andy?