Against Tanking

[CKwi88]

I don't think there will be any overt tanking. Like others have said, players are playing for future contracts and the like.

However, I also don't think there will be any urgency to return from injuries, or any apprehension in giving the young guys some reps for experience.

These aren't the 2010s Bengals where getting to the Wildcard and getting booted in the first round is anything to be proud of or want. From a fan standpoint, I might actually prefer having them draft in the top 10, kind of like the 49ers got to do when Jimmy G went down and then they got Nick Bosa.

[kevin]

(11-20-2023, 10:12 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I don't think there will be any overt tanking. Like others have said, players are playing for future contracts and the like.

However, I also don't think there will be any urgency to return from injuries, or any apprehension in giving the young guys some reps for experience.

These aren't the 2010s Bengals where getting to the Wildcard and getting booted in the first round is anything to be proud of or want. From a fan standpoint, I might actually prefer having them draft in the top 10, kind of like the 49ers got to do when Jimmy G went down and then they got Nick Bosa.

I thought Bengals making play-offs 5 years in a row was pretty good, considering Bengals had only went play-offs 2 years in a row once in 1981 and 1982.  The worst era of Bengals was from 1991 to 2004 of no play-offs at all.  I learned finishing last and only looking forward to draft day is football at it's worst.  The huge problem I discovered in 1990's Bengals is that when a team is that bad, one top draft pick is not going to turn around such a mess of a team. Bengals had many top picks in 1990's to around 2001, and what good did it do them, they still stunk.  Tanking for The Draft is Over Rated. 1990's Bengals proved losing is not a path to victory. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-19-2023, 10:54 PM)Nepa Wrote: One of my lasting memories is Ryan Finley beating Pittsburgh on MNF in 2020 after Burrow had been lost for the season.

The Bengals had no hope for the playoffs. But they beat a 10-2 Pittsburgh team, with third stringer Ryan Finley. It was also the game where Von Bell laid out Juju Smith-Shuster, sending him flying backward and fumbling. This after Smith-Shuster had danced on the Bengals logo before the game.

I suppose the tankers would have preferred a loss. You know, helping the Bengals' draft position. But for those rooting for the Bengals, it was one of the more memorable and satisfying victories. 

I'd love to see the Bengals beat Pittsburgh. May not happen. But I'm sure as hell not going to be rooting for the Steelers with an eye to draft position.

As it was, the Bengals overcoming the odds in a MNF game, with a backup QB, help set the tone for the team's Super Bowl run. Something tanking would never do.

Still one of my favorite games. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-19-2023, 08:49 PM)Synric Wrote: I wouldn't advocate tanking.... but Charlie Jones has 4 offensive snaps 2 targets 1 catch 6 yards and there's alot of expectations for him to replace Tyler Boyd in 2024... Getting young guys snaps would probably be smart.

I'd like to see more Jones myself....and probably Jordan Battle while we're at it.

[WeezyBengal]

The rest of this season should be used for player evaluation and getting young players reps.

Need to see what we have in Battle, Turner, Murphy, Sample, Carter, Charlie Jones, Chase Brown, Yoshi, etc.

[The D.O.Z.]

This team doesn't have the horses to be a run-first offense. We have Pollack. We have a spotty offensive line, and we have Mixon & The No Name Crew. We have a porous run defense with a DLine that struggles to get pressure on opposing QBs.
No, this team is dead in the water after the Burrow injury. I fully expect post-Burrow 2020 injury type play out there from here on out. They won't tank on purpose, they don't have to. Use this time to evaluate rookies and start the process of moving Frank's office to the unemployment line.

[CJD]

(11-19-2023, 08:41 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, Joe Burrow is out for the season.  Yes, the Bengals are last place in the AFC North. Ticket sales are dropping, fans are despondent, and the sports analysts are gleeful because they’ve projected the Bengals to completely implode.  Some fans even want the team to tank on purpose to secure an earlier draft pick.

I’m against tanking for any reason.  I want the Bengals to feed the NFL and the smarmy television analysts a big shitburger and make the playoffs anyway.  

It’s possible.  The defense needs to burn or shred the scheme used against Baltimore and Houston and do whatever they did against San Francisco and Buffalo.  Zac needs to switch to a run-first offense even if it means using an extra offensive lineman.

If the Bengals’ record was 4-6 or worse then I might make me more sympathetic to those who want to tank.  Let’s beat the Steelers and then move on to the next game.

Did you want to beat Miami in 2019 too?

Because that would have been a disaster if we had won that meaningless game.

[TKUHL]

I completely get wanting to tank but if this backup is in a roll, doubtful but ya never know. It wouldn’t be fair to him or the other players. Honestly I don’t care either way but I sure would like to beat Pitt twice to spoil their chances of a wild card.

[Stewy]

(11-19-2023, 10:14 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: You really would rather have Herbert and Smith over Burrow and Chase? We all got opinions, but wow.

You completely missed the point of his post.  Read again.  Or look up "butterfly effect"

[casear2727]

(11-20-2023, 10:26 AM)kevin Wrote: I thought Bengals making play-offs 5 years in a row was pretty good, considering Bengals had only went play-offs 2 years in a row once in 1981 and 1982.  The worst era of Bengals was from 1991 to 2004 of no play-offs at all.  I learned finishing last and only looking forward to draft day is football at it's worst.  The huge problem I discovered in 1990's Bengals is that when a team is that bad, one top draft pick is not going to turn around such a mess of a team. Bengals had many top picks in 1990's to around 2001, and what good did it do them, they still stunk.  Tanking for The Draft is Over Rated. 1990's Bengals proved losing is not a path to victory. 

I'll never be a fan of mediocrity.  Being a marginal playoff team every season is the worst position to be in as an NFL team.  Too bad to actually win a playoff game and too good to actually obtain impact players.  

Great teams and front offices can have a single bad season and reload.  I do agree with you when you say our front office can be terrible and that is an annual risk.

[CKwi88]

(11-20-2023, 10:26 AM)kevin Wrote: I thought Bengals making play-offs 5 years in a row was pretty good, considering Bengals had only went play-offs 2 years in a row once in 1981 and 1982.  The worst era of Bengals was from 1991 to 2004 of no play-offs at all.  I learned finishing last and only looking forward to draft day is football at it's worst.  The huge problem I discovered in 1990's Bengals is that when a team is that bad, one top draft pick is not going to turn around such a mess of a team. Bengals had many top picks in 1990's to around 2001, and what good did it do them, they still stunk.  Tanking for The Draft is Over Rated. 1990's Bengals proved losing is not a path to victory. 

Comparing these Bengals to the Bengals of the 90's or 2010's is apples and oranges. The teams in the 90s were terrible. The teams in the 2010's had Andy Dalton, not Joe Burrow. This team is, or at least should be, in win now mode. A higher draft pick is more likely to help the team in the immediate future. 

I'll never root for the Bengals to lose and I'd never want them to intentionally lose games. It's just my position that the rest of this season is pretty inconsequential, so if they do end up losing it's kind of whatever.

[*Nately120*]

(11-20-2023, 01:07 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Comparing these Bengals to the Bengals of the 90's or 2010's is apples and oranges. The teams in the 90s were terrible. The teams in the 2010's had Andy Dalton, not Joe Burrow. This team is, or at least should be, in win now mode. A higher draft pick is more likely to help the team in the immediate future. 

I'll never root for the Bengals to lose and I'd never want them to intentionally lose games. It's just my position that the rest of this season is pretty inconsequential, so if they do end up losing it's kind of whatever.

True, we just need to not take it to heart when people say that the Bengals are total crap without Burrow and that he would be better off being somewhere else.  We need to win the SB in 2024 now, because we can't just bank on being bad enough to get good picks and easy schedules without tacitly hoping Burrow gets hurt.

Stuff like this is why non Bengals fans look at the Steelers being ahead of us in the division with a QB who throws about 1 TD per month and say "Wow, imagine if Burrow were there instead of a team that completely falls apart when he's not playing."  We have to capitalize on this.  Can't look this gift horse in the mouth, as odd as it is calling yet another Burrow season-ender a gift of any kind.

[Frank Booth]

(11-20-2023, 01:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, we just need to not take it to heart when people say that the Bengals are total crap without Burrow and that he would be better off being somewhere else.  We need to win the SB in 2024 now, because we can't just bank on being bad enough to get good picks and easy schedules without tacitly hoping Burrow gets hurt.

Stuff like this is why non Bengals fans look at the Steelers being ahead of us in the division with a QB who throws about 1 TD per month and say "Wow, imagine if Burrow were there instead of a team that completely falls apart when he's not playing."  We have to capitalize on this.  Can't look this gift horse in the mouth, as odd as it is calling yet another Burrow season-ender a gift of any kind.

Burrow would be getting killed behind pitt's line too. His play style is his play style. Pickett gets hit hard, and they're a run first team

[*Nately120*]

(11-20-2023, 01:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Burrow would be getting killed behind pitt's line too. His play style is his play style. Pickett gets hit hard, and they're a run first team

Right, I'm just saying Pickett has a stat line like it is 1934 and he's still not very good by those standards.  I feel like Burrow could do a lot on a team that only needs him to throw 1 TD every 2 weeks to win.  Burrow could probably play 1 quarter per week in Pittsburgh and get the W.

[*PhilHos*]

I don't want the team to tank, but this is certainly the time for the coaches to try different things just to try them. Wins at this point are secondary to improving the team.

Have the OL try different blocking schemes, see what they're good at, especially against other opponents. Try different OL combinations, too.
Defensively, same thing, gameplan for opponents, but try different formations, different schemes. Play the rookies more.
Run a whole lost of gimmick plays on offense. Be creative but don't be predictable.

Just tell the players that we're not tanking but we are going to start experimenting and let them know you're open to their ideas, too.

This way, if we win, we win, but if we don't, we're at least having fun.

[*Nately120*]

(11-20-2023, 01:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't want the team to tank, but this is certainly the time for the coaches to try different things just to try them. Wins at this point are secondary to improving the team.

Have the OL try different blocking schemes, see what they're good at, especially against other opponents. Try different OL combinations, too.
Defensively, same thing, gameplan for opponents, but try different formations, different schemes. Play the rookies more.
Run a whole lost of gimmick plays on offense. Be creative but don't be predictable.

Just tell the players that we're not tanking but we are going to start experimenting and let them know you're open to their ideas, too.

This way, if we win, we win, but if we don't, we're at least having fun.

I have to admit this does sound interesting.  Burrow gets hurt and the Bengals go from a SB contender to an outright circus.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-20-2023, 01:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I have to admit this does sound interesting.  Burrow gets hurt and the Bengals go from a SB contender to an outright circus.

Gave me an idea. Who's the biggest person we have on the team? Give that person the ball on short yardage situations. Just have him run right up the gut. Don't care if it's an offensive or defensive lineman. Just give them the ball and have them run it directly behind (or into the behind) of the OL.

Worked for Refrigerator Perry and it can work for us.

[SunsetBengal]

I don't advocate for tanking, but I do believe that the team could learn a lot about the quality and integrity of their youthful players by letting them gain valuable experience in the form of live game reps. I'm also not calling for them to "empty the bench" and just throw every back of the roster guy out there simultaneously, either. Just give our projected future starters the playing time over guys that are likely not expected to be with the club next season, in situations where there is a fair chance to win ball games.

[Joelist]

(11-20-2023, 01:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't advocate for tanking, but I do believe that the team could learn a lot about the quality and integrity of their youthful players by letting them gain valuable experience in the form of live game reps.  I'm also not calling for them to "empty the bench" and just throw every back of the roster guy out there simultaneously, either.  Just give our projected future starters the playing time over guys that are likely not expected to be with the club next season, in situations where there is a fair chance to win ball games.

We're already seeing play time for the defensive kids. We need the same on offense - get Yoshi, Chuck Sizzle and Chase Brown more snaps. Way more snaps so that we know what we have by end of season. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-20-2023, 01:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Gave me an idea. Who's the biggest person we have on the team? Give that person the ball on short yardage situations. Just have him run right up the gut. Don't care if it's an offensive or defensive lineman. Just give them the ball and have them run it directly behind (or into the behind) of the OL.

Worked for Refrigerator Perry and it can work for us.

I watch the CFL and my team is the Calgary Stampeders and they have a backup QB who is 6'5 and 260lbs that they use almost exclusively to pick up a 1st or a TD on 3rd and short situations.