Rand Paul Tax Plan

[*michaelsean*]

(06-19-2015, 02:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When did poor people get the same mortgage deduction as millionaires?  You want a flat tax rate, but you also want to give people with more expensive houses a bigger tax break?  Seems like a contradiction to me.

What does owning a house have to do with paying your fair share of taxes?

You didn't answer my question.  I do much better with my mortgage deduction that I would with the standard deduction.  Now if you don't think mortgage deduction is a legitimate thing, that's fine, but it benefits all home owners.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-19-2015, 01:46 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Or we could spend less.  Crazy idea, I know.

That's a given. But we can only cut so deep. Cuts alone can't do the job, especially if we are going to decrease revenues. Also, cutting so deeply to work ourselves out of the debt we have accumulated will throw us into a recession in a heartbeat.

[*Nately120*]

Does anything get better by being flat? Women? Singing? Ohio?

[Benton]

(06-19-2015, 02:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You can only write off gambling losses against wins.

Valid point, but I don't think you should be able to. I can't think of a lot of hobbies where failing is tax deductible. 

[StLucieBengal]

(06-19-2015, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Valid point, but I don't think you should be able to. I can't think of a lot of hobbies where failing is tax deductible. 

Isn't that also a career choice as well....

[SunsetBengal]

(06-19-2015, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Is this supposed to be a joke?

Gift and estate taxes are two the biggest elitist perks this country has to offer.

A guy who works hard to earn a million dollars has to pay tax on it while a guy who does NOTHING to deserve inheriting a million dollars gets it tax free.

Also retaining the mortgage deduction is more pandering to the wealthy.

Evidently, the populous of your State does not feel the same way that you do.  According to this, http://taxfoundation.org/blog/state-estate-and-inheritance-taxes-2014 , Tennessee is scheduled for a full repeal of estate tax by 2016.

Fortunately, I live in a State that has no estate or inheritance tax. My Father, not a wealthy man my any stretch, has worked hard his entire life, to put some back to have for retirement and to leave a little behind. He would be devastated if ANY of what he intended to go to us kids and the grandkids, was swallowed up by the Government.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2015/06/18/senator-rand-pauls-very-good-tax-plan-needs-one-important-tweak/

Forbes critique.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-19-2015, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Valid point, but I don't think you should be able to. I can't think of a lot of hobbies where failing is tax deductible. 

Well what hobby charges income tax? Plus what would you consider winning? Any blackjack hand you won? I mean if I win 3 blackjack hands and lose 10, should I pay tax on the 3 I win?

[Benton]

(06-19-2015, 10:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well what hobby charges income tax?  Plus what would you consider winning?  Any blackjack hand you won?  I mean if I win 3 blackjack hands and lose 10, should I pay tax on the 3 I win?

Any could, provided you gain from it. Golf tournaments, fishing tournaments, archery competitions, paid musicians, artists who sell their work, sailors entering races, motorbike racers, race car drivers. If I have stacks of unsold paintings, does that mean I can claim them as a loss? If I lose a race, can I balance that with the purses from the wins? 

No. It's just with the gambling industry. 

As far as winning, I think it's mostly the honor system up until you win a certain amount. I dunno, I don't gamble at casinos much. I know if you win over a certain amount you have to claim it.

As far as the hands you win/lose, I would suppose it's more dollars and less quantity of hands. 

[Benton]

(06-19-2015, 06:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Isn't that also a career choice as well....

Why am I paying for other people's failures?

[JustWinBaby]

(06-20-2015, 12:28 AM)Benton Wrote: Why am I paying for other people's failures?

I thought that's what got liberals off

[Belsnickel]

(06-19-2015, 10:10 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well what hobby charges income tax? 

Any hobby that earns you a profit in three of the last five years.

[Belsnickel]

(06-19-2015, 07:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2015/06/18/senator-rand-pauls-very-good-tax-plan-needs-one-important-tweak/

Forbes critique.

Not surprisingly, I disagree on some of the points there. Most importantly, I disagree on the last one. The author of the article claims that the business activity tax proposed would not allow personnel expenses to be deducted. They weren't mentioned specifically in Paul's statements, so I'd like to see evidence that it has actively been stated they will be removed. If those expenses are not going to be included, then I agree, the tax would be very much like a VAT, though it would not have the final stage at the end consumer level. However, the article makes the claim that this would be a new source of revenue for the government, which is a half truth. It's a replacement. With his tax plan you are losing duties, tariffs, and corporate income tax. All of that to be replaced by Paul's new BAT. When you recognize this as a replacement, the argument at the end of the article becomes unnecessary and really just a biased point of view against the 'socialist evils' of VAT.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-20-2015, 12:23 AM)Benton Wrote: Any could, provided you gain from it. Golf tournaments, fishing tournaments, archery competitions, paid musicians, artists who sell their work, sailors entering races, motorbike racers, race car drivers. If I have stacks of unsold paintings, does that mean I can claim them as a loss? If I lose a race, can I balance that with the purses from the wins? 

No. It's just with the gambling industry. 

As far as winning, I think it's mostly the honor system up until you win a certain amount. I dunno, I don't gamble at casinos much. I know if you win over a certain amount you have to claim it.

As far as the hands you win/lose, I would suppose it's more dollars and less quantity of hands. 

And they can all deduct things like entry fees.

Ok so I bet $1000 a hand and win 5 and lose 5. You really think I should have to pay tax on the 5 I won? You don't think it should be net winnings?

[JustWinBaby]

You can only claim gamling losses in excess of winnings if you are a professional gambler.

[Benton]

(06-20-2015, 08:21 AM)michaelsean Wrote: And they can all deduct things like entry fees.  

Ok so I bet $1000 a hand and win 5 and lose 5.  You really think I should have to pay tax on the 5 I won?  You don't think it should be net winnings?

I think it should be on all of it.

I'm into archery. I don't do tournaments, but if I did, I would be taxed on the equipment (sales). I don't know if the guy collecting the entry fee would be taxed, but I would be taxed the winnings in the purse if i won.

So, yeah, I think if you play 10, win five, you should be taxed on five hands. That hobby and its industry aren't any more break worthy than any other. They just bribe better. Mostly in quarters from the slots.

(06-20-2015, 08:32 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You can only claim gamling losses in excess of winnings if you are a professional gambler.

Which is different.

[Devils Advocate]

Why does anyone believe labor, whether it's gambling or working 16 hrs a day in a coal mine, should be taxed?

It's an even trade -- time, labor and effort for monies. There is no profit. It's exactly the same thing if private parties trade a red apple for a green apple.

Only profits may be taxed. This is why a person can write off their fuel costs for driving to and from work or why non profits don't pay taxes.

The government/IRS is literally telling us our time and labor are worthless by taxing 'wages'.

It's why the tax code is deliberately confusing and extensive. It's why definitions vary from section to section and why there is nothing definitive about who owes taxes and why it's a 'voluntary' system.

Aside from all that, at least Rand is proposing something. The current system is broken and outta control. More taxes is not the answer.

[Belsnickel]

(06-20-2015, 11:28 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Only profits may be taxed. This is why a person can write off their fuel costs for driving to and from work or why non profits don't pay taxes.

According to what? What says only profits may be taxed? Also, your commuting miles are not considered business expenses that can be used to deductions.

[fredtoast]

(06-19-2015, 03:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You didn't answer my question.  I do much better with my mortgage deduction that I would with the standard deduction.  Now if you don't think mortgage deduction is a legitimate thing, that's fine, but it benefits all home owners.  

The mortgage deduction is a much bigger benefit to people who have bigger mortgages.  It helps the wealthy much more than lower income classes.  The standard deduction is so high now that you have to have a pretty large mortgage to come out ahead itemizing.

A private jet deduction would work the same way.  Just because it helps all private jet owners does not mean it does not favor the wealthy over the middle and lower classes. 

[fredtoast]

(06-19-2015, 06:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fortunately, I live in a State that has no estate or inheritance tax.  My Father, not a wealthy man my any stretch, has worked hard his entire life, to put some back to have for retirement and to leave a little behind.  He would be devastated if ANY of what he intended to go to us kids and the grandkids, was swallowed up by the Government.

Your fathers feelings have nothing to do with what is right and wrong.

It is just wrong for people who work for their money to have to pay income taxes while people who do NOTHING to earn money get it tax free.