Hillary: An Unborn Child Hours Before Delivery Has No Constitutional Rights

[GMDino]

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm

Quote:TRUMP: As far as Planned Parenthood is concerned, I'm pro-life. I'm totally against abortion, having to do with Planned Parenthood. But millions and millions of women -- cervical cancer, breast cancer -- are helped by Planned Parenthood. So you can say whatever you want, but they have millions of women going through Planned Parenthood that are helped greatly. And I wouldn't fund it. I would defund it because of the abortion factor, which they say is 3 percent. I don't know what percentage it is. They say it's 3%. But I would defund it, because I'm pro-life. But millions of women are helped by Planned Parenthood.

Quote:Donald Trump shocked attendees at the conservative CPAC conference in February when he declared himself pro-life after years of supporting the pro-abortion position. Several months ago, when questioned about his position, Trump responded by saying the public "would be surprised" by his stance and, in an interview with Laura Ingraham from Fox News leading up to the conference, Trump characterized himself as "pro-life" and he repeated that apparent reversal when he told the audience at CPAC, "I am pro-life" and pledged to fight for the reversal of ObamaCare, which contains abortion funding loopholes.

Quote:I support a woman’s right to choose, but I am uncomfortable with the procedures. When Tim Russert asked me on Meet the Press if I would ban partial-birth abortion, my pro-choice instincts led me to say no. After the show, I consulted two doctors I respect and, upon learning more about this procedure, I have concluded that I would support a ban.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p. 31-32 , Jul 2, 2000

Favors abortion rights but respects opposition

Trump clarified his views on abortion, saying he favors abortion rights, but respects those who oppose his position. “I believe it is a personal decision that should be left to the women and their doctors,” he said.
Source: Pat Eaton-Robb, Associated Press , Dec 2, 1999

So if you can't vote for Hillary because she "changes her views" based on the audience you can't vote for Trump either.


http://www.charismanews.com/politics/primaries/51296-donald-trumps-views-on-abortion-confusing

Quote:Bloomberg Business asked Donald Trump if he was pro-life and he said "yes." But asked to expound and he said, "It's an issue. I mean it's an issue, and it's a strong issue." Asked if abortion early in the pregnancy was murder to the Don, he replied,"What I am saying is this: With caveats – life of the mother, incest, rape. That's where I stand. So, I'm pro-life, but with the caveats. You have to have it with the caveats." Asked if a pregnancy happens outside those caveats, Trump stated, "It depends why." "I'm, pro-life...very simple pro-life," he said. 

Quote:His not-so-passionate "pro-life" answer seems to be a change from what he wrote in 2000. In his book, The America We Deserve, Trump devoted three sentences to abortion, claiming to be "pro-choice" but against partial birth abortion. In 2011, before a crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington, D.C., Trump was asked about his pro-choice position and responded, "Who said I'm pro-choice?" 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-02-2016, 09:54 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 1) I can only assume that you have never heard the terms homonym and homograph. Must be a confusing existence not knowing these things exist.

Assume all you want.  The fact I picked a word with the same spelling, but different meanings that vary based upon context  IOT teach you how contexts influences the correct definition of a word with multiple definitions would indicate I maybe heard of those "things."

Quote:2) No I never wondered this and just because a baby is not a fetus, does not mean a fetus cannot also be a baby. Another dynamic that ecsapes you that most likely makes life more confusing. Here let me blow your mind: A square can also be a rectangle, but a rectangle can never be a square. I know: mind blown.

An infant (from the Latin word infans, meaning "unable to speak" or "speechless") is the very young offspring of a human or animal. When applied to humans, the term is usually considered synonymous with baby or bairn (in Scottish English), but the latter is commonly applied to the young of any animal. When a human child learns to walk, the term toddler may be used instead. The term infant is typically applied to young children between the ages of 1 month and 12 months; however, definitions may vary between birth and 1 year of age, or even between birth and 2 years of age. A newborn is an infant who is only hours, days, or up to a few weeks old. In medical contexts, newborn or neonate (from Latin, neonatus, newborn) refers to an infant in the first 28 days after birth;[1] the term applies to premature infants, postmature infants, and full term infants. Before birth, the term fetus is used

I've studied embryology, ob/gyn, and pediatrics to name just three courses specific to this topic.  You believe a chick in Texas controlled a tornado.  Obviously, there is no changing your mind.

Quote:3) I suppose we could go back and see who accused whom first, but I'm quite sure you pulled the card first.

That would make me a dick and you a hypocrite.  I'm fine with that.

Quote:4) Seems as if you are kind of repeating yourself here. Please refer to answer #2 (once your briain stops spinning) to find your answer.

I'll tell you what, once you have successfully completed embryology, ob/gyn, and pediatrics get back with me and we'll compare notes.  I just finished precepting a student last month so I'm available for you.

Quote:5) Simply pointed out that you chose to use the exclusive definition of a word that has inclusive meanings. As your orginal answer whas "when a baby can breathe on its own". Other might rightly, consider the fetus a baby capable of breathing on its own.

However, a fetus isn't breathing on its own, because as you yourself noted it is "unborn" which means it is still in the uterus and receiving oxygen via the umbilical cord.  What does that mean? It. isn't. "breathing." on. its. own.

Quote:6) Good simple explaination about the stages of pregnancy.

Perhaps the American Academy of Pediatrics can help you out.

Quote:7) A continuation of simple biology.

So much for you stating you case "clearly."  Is that a yes or a no on the fetal stage ends at birth?

Quote:I can only imagine someone of your POV is a hoot at a baby shower:

Person A: "Can I feel the baby kick?"

Person B: "It's not a baby, it's a fetus; hell I don't even know why we are calling this event a baby shower; it should be a fetal gathering".

You go to a lot of baby showers, do you?

My POV?  You mean someone educated in embryology, ob/gyn, and pediatrics?  Someone of my POV who doesn't buy into your "scientific" definition of race which you have yet to provide?  Would your wife rather have someone with my trained POV deliver her baby or someone who will just "pray" the baby out like that lady in Texas who steered the tornado?  She didn't need a tornado driver's license so why bother getting a license to deliver a baby?

Quote:This will be my last point-by-point discussion with you on this matter; as it has grown petty in nature.

Quitter.

Quote:Feel free to believe the same word can only mean one thing and confuse inclusive/exclusive definitions with homonyms and homographs. Just be prepared to get dismissed quite frequently.

I know.  Because "sciency" "folks" are "funny," but rootin', tootin' Texan tornado wranglers are to be taken totally seriously.  

What about Onan's right to life?  Slayed because he pulled out?  Your god is a murderer and you're condemning other's morality?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-02-2016, 12:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Still growing and developing.  Ever heard of babies born prematurely?

Do all premature babies survive?  Why not?

Quote:It's still attached and getting oxygen and other things because it's inside the mother, but it doesn't need to be.

I guess you missed the part about the placenta detaching, as in not attached, and not supplying oxygen to the fetus. 

Quote:A snorkler can't survive very long without an oxygen tank, so does that mean it's ok to kill him/her?

I am going to assume the snorkler has been born and a U.S. citizens, therefore entitled to Constitutional rights.  According to the law (which you claim this doesn't have anything to do with the law, but it does), it is not okay to kill him/her.

Quote:If you don't know, then you do, just like I've said all along.

I know what I think.  I'm asking what you think.  Are you stating not imposing my beliefs on others is the same as supporting abortion?  Because if you are, you're wrong.  Although I don't expect you to understand.

Quote:It's about common sense and about having the right to life.

What part is common sense?

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-02-2016, 06:05 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Placenta abruptio.

That is what we call it when the placenta seperates from the uterues before birth.  If the placenta isn't attached to the uterus it cannot supply oxygen to the fetus.  Without oxygen the fetus will die . . . because the fetus just hours before delivery is still dependant upon the woman to live.

Placenta previa.

That is what we call it when the placenta's attachment covers all or part of the cervix which can make a vaginal delivery impossible.  If the fetus can't be delivered vaginally or via C-section it will die.

Placenta accreta.

That is what we call it when . . . ah, fudge it.

Bro.. You casting Harry Potter spells over here?

[BFritz21]

(08-02-2016, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Do all premature babies survive?  Why not?

Not all survive because it's a complication, but not all die, so you can't decide that none have a right to life.

Do all babies born on time survive?  Why not?

(08-02-2016, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I guess you missed the part about the placenta detaching, as in not attached, and not supplying oxygen to the fetus. 

It's only getting oxygen from the mother because it's in her belly floating in fluid!  Take it out of that setting, and it can breathe!

(08-02-2016, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I am going to assume the snorkler has been born and a U.S. citizens, therefore entitled to Constitutional rights.  According to the law (which you claim this doesn't have anything to do with the law, but it does), it is not okay to kill him/her. 

You were talking about the abilities to breathe, not the subject of being born in that particular point.

As I've pointed out, a baby born prematurely is still a person and alive.

Just because we don't start counting birthdays until it's out of the womb, doesn't mean you're not killing a person.

(08-02-2016, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I know what I think.  I'm asking what you think.  Are you stating not imposing my beliefs on others is the same as supporting abortion?  Because if you are, you're wrong.  Although I don't expect you to understand.

It's not something that you can have both ways.  There is no grey area in abortion.  Either you support the killing of a child or you don't.

The health of the mother isn't in discussion here because we're not talking about those instances.

(08-02-2016, 04:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What part is common sense?

That abortion is wrong.

[Rotobeast]

(08-02-2016, 04:29 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:

Make sure you chastize the manufacturer for not including the "quotation" marks.

Is this a transgender rights thing ?
"Boy" "Girl"





Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[THE Bigzoman]

An old ***** pretty much advocating for women to be able to act like mother hamseters?

Shocked.

[THE Bigzoman]

(07-31-2016, 03:36 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I'm still kind of floored no guy has challenged the fact that he has no real say....financially responsible if she keeps the baby, but no legal standing to object to an abortion.

And when you consider feticide laws....there's a real case to be made.

Someone did a few decades ago, but it got shut down pretty quick.



The problem with financial abortion is that taxpayers don't want to pick up the slack for absent farthers. But there's a hypocritical spin on people who use the "cost argument", considering single mother homes are pretty common despite not allowing men the right to financially abort. We're already paying out the arse for them through taxes and societal costs. Stastically speaking, single mothers are raising tomorrow's carjackers, drug addicts, gangmembers, you name it. It's kind of ****** that we subsidize the hell out of these criminal factories.

[THE Bigzoman]

(07-30-2016, 09:02 PM)Westwood Bengal Wrote: Amazing how your solution manages to place ALL the responsibility and blame on women. 

How about the same for dudes? Knock up 3 women who get abortions, and they cut your balls off? Maybe men will start to feel responsible for their actions as well…...

Women have far more opitions and far more effective forms of birth control than men do.

Pretending it's the same and placing equal responsibility on both is plain dumb.

[JustWinBaby]

(08-03-2016, 03:01 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Someone did a few decades ago,  but it got shut down pretty quick.

That really is interesting.  I'm shocked that it was definitive and there haven't been more newsworthy counter arguments.

And I have very complex views on the matter.  At various stages of my life, I would have wanted to walk away with no financial obligation just as much as I might have wanted to raise my child.  In either case, I think I should have a say.

[Belsnickel]

(08-03-2016, 03:07 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Women have far more opitions and far more effective forms of birth control than men do.

Pretending it's the same and placing equal responsibility on both is plain dumb.

What's interesting about this is women may have more options, but none of them are as easily obtained as condoms.

[THE Bigzoman]

(08-03-2016, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting about this is women may have more options, but none of them are as easily obtained as condoms.

Cop-out.

While that is an area of improvement we could explore, there's nothing really suggesting that women as a group are hindered from getting them to a high enough degree for this to be a legit counter.

Men on the other are hindered when it comes to anything that isn't condoms.

I'm a 24 year old graduate who is just starting his career in accounting/finance. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a doctor that will perform a vasectomy on me?

Never mind the fact that my insurance won't pay for it, meaning I'll have to pay for it out of pocket when I do find a doctor.

[THE Bigzoman]

(08-03-2016, 04:15 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: That really is interesting.  I'm shocked that it was definitive and there haven't been more newsworthy counter arguments.

And I have very complex views on the matter.  At various stages of my life, I would have wanted to walk away with no financial obligation just as much as I might have wanted to raise my child.  In either case, I think I should have a say.

You should have a say.

But our society is more inclined to favor women on anything that is or related to family formation than it is to show common sense.

The state has pretty much reduced men to disposable utilities and cash cows for women. It's disgusting.

[GMDino]

(08-03-2016, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting about this is women may have more options, but none of them are as easily obtained as condoms.

What's more interesting to me is that "birth control" is an argument being used at all.

How about you guys just keep it in your pants?

I'm not one to promote abstinence only but it really does work if you can do it. If you can't then birth control option need to be made available.

But saying women are more to blame because they have more options?  Really?

[THE Bigzoman]

(08-03-2016, 11:29 AM)GMDino Wrote: What's more interesting to me is that "birth control" is an argument being used at all.

How about you guys just keep it in your pants?

I'm not one to promote abstinence only but it really does work if you can do it. If you can't then birth control option need to be made available.

But saying women are more to blame because they have more options?  Really?

Sex by itself isn't consent to parenthood.

You'd think a thread citing common law for their arguments wouldn't gloss over this idea being shut down in Roe V Wade.

[Benton]

(08-03-2016, 10:59 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Cop-out.

While that is an area of improvement we could explore, there's nothing really suggesting that women as a group are hindered from getting them to a high enough degree for this to be a legit counter.

Men on the other are hindered when it comes to anything that isn't condoms.

I'm a 24 year old graduate who is just starting his career in accounting/finance. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a doctor that will perform a vasectomy on me?

Never mind the fact that my insurance won't pay for it, meaning I'll have to pay for it out of pocket when I do find a doctor.

Then... wear a condom and be glad you're getting some? Beats: option A ) getting the funk on your junk or B ) not getting any.

[BmorePat87]

(08-03-2016, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting about this is women may have more options, but none of them are as easily obtained as condoms.

We need to make sure it's easier for an older man to get an erection than it is for a young woman to prevent pregnancies. 

[Benton]

(08-03-2016, 11:44 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Sex by yourself isn't consent to parenthood.

 

That's correct.

Otherwise it's like saying "Eating a doughnut isn't consent to getting fat" or "Playing Pokemon go and driving isn't consent to wrapping my car around a light pole."

If you have sex with a person of the opposite sex, a likely outcome is another person.

[BmorePat87]

(08-02-2016, 10:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: That abortion is wrong.

Only 29% of the country is completely opposed, though. Not really "common sense". 

[THE Bigzoman]

(08-03-2016, 11:47 AM)Benton Wrote: Then... wear a condom and be glad you're getting some? Beats: option A ) getting the funk on your junk or B ) not getting any.

Cool story..I guess.

I'll just wait for Bell to log in and address that post then.