What do we deserve for AJ McCarron?

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-17-2016, 12:42 PM)MC Howley Wrote: So true, didn't think about the $, which is HUGE.

I bet our boy Mikey B is giving em hell out there on the negotiations with this list of goods.... Feel like we GOT TO get a 1st rounder for him. and if we do, oh my god! Id be jacked supreme.

1st rounders are so vital now with the rookie wage scale and the club-option 5th year that I would be surprised if we got one.  No team at the end of round 1 will be searching for a QB, but someone else brought up New England, and that is interesting, but I think their cap would prevent AJ from getting a long term deal the following year and Brady will likely keep playing until he owns virtually every passing record.  

Only other team that might be selecting toward the end of round 1 that could use a QB is the Texans, but I don't see them making much of a run since they don't have a few key pieces on defense (injuries).  

The best they will likely do is a high second and a fourth.  And that would be just fine with me.  I actually like Jeff Driscoll and think they can make him a solid backup.  

[CKwi88]

Second Rounder is very optimistic.

I'd take a high 3rd.

[BengalFanInNJ]

The Bengals won't get anything higher than a 3rd rounder.

[wolfkaosaun]

(12-17-2016, 07:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: If the deal is less than anything of a very high second round pick, I would keep him as well.  The Bengals hold all the cards, and can negotiate very well for him.  

The benefits to AJ are numerous:

Experienced
Leader
Cheap
Has a year left on rookie deal to evaluate...you only lose the draft pick if he fails, not a huge contract.  If he pans out, you have your franchise QB
Young, and hasn't taken a pounding

Jimmy Garoppolo is also experienced, shown to be a leader, and cheap. Jimmy will make $870K next year. McCarron will make $600K. But there's also Mettenberger who has seen the field, was alright as a gun slinger, will cost less than McCarron, and is younger.

Oh, and Jimmy is also younger than McCarron. McCarron will be 27 years old when the season starts next year.

But there are also benefits for other QBs on the market as well.

I think us as Bengals fans over-hype McCarron due to him playing in Alabama. I just don't see anone trading for him unless extremely desperate.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-17-2016, 07:37 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Jimmy Garoppolo is also experienced, shown to be a leader, and cheap. Jimmy will make $870K next year. McCarron will make $600K. But there's also Mettenberger who has seen the field, was alright as a gun slinger, will cost less than McCarron, and is younger.

Oh, and Jimmy is also younger than McCarron. McCarron will be 27 years old when the season starts next year.

But there are also benefits for other QBs on the market as well.

I think us as Bengals fans over-hype McCarron due to him playing in Alabama. I just don't see anone trading for him unless extremely desperate.

I thought Garoppolo had one less year on his contract, my bad.  Mettenberger might not have had the best supporting cast, but I don't see him as nearly as polished as McCarron.

"Jimmy" was rated as the #1 FA QB for the upcoming season, although he isn't quite a FA.  He looked good in a couple of his outings but I think McCarron's performance against Denver, in Denver, was his crowning achievement.  Granted, they lost, but he took the #1 defense in the NFL to OT.  

A lot of people will think Jimmy is a product of his system, and he really only got to play in one complete game before getting injured towards the end of his second start.  McCarron went six games for the Bengals, I believe, and played well in the playoff game.  

[Shake n Blake]

(12-17-2016, 08:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought Garoppolo had one less year on his contract, my bad.  Mettenberger might not have had the best supporting cast, but I don't see him as nearly as polished as McCarron.

"Jimmy" was rated as the #1 FA QB for the upcoming season, although he isn't quite a FA.  He looked good in a couple of his outings but I think McCarron's performance against Denver, in Denver, was his crowning achievement.  Granted, they lost, but he took the #1 defense in the NFL to OT.  

A lot of people will think Jimmy is a product of his system, and he really only got to play in one complete game before getting injured towards the end of his second start.  McCarron went six games for the Bengals, I believe, and played well in the playoff game.  

If you count the Steelers game as a "start", then Mac made 5 starts including the playoff game. I like you man, but McCarron did not play well in the playoff game. I don't see anyone outside of these boards claiming McCarron had a good playoff game. It was awful honestly. Did he lead a couple good drives late? Sure. But if he'd not been so dreadful for the first 3.5 quarters, we could've ran away with that game. The defense had an absolutely heroic effort...allowing only 15 points to perhaps the best offense in the NFL. McCarron blew it by not being able to put up points against an abysmal defense. 

Jimmy is the superior prospect. A 2nd round pick with a better arm. He actually made things happen (4 TDs and over 450 yards in his 2 starts last year, 30+ points both times), whereas Mac played game manager. Mac played that role well, but it's different than what Garrappolo was asked to do. Jimmy looked more like a guy who may be a future franchise QB.

Now maybe Mac is capable of doing that, but it's not what Hue asked him to do. Hue basically treated him like he wanted to prevent him from making mistakes and let the team lead him to victory, rather than vice versa.

[Brownshoe]

(12-17-2016, 08:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought Garoppolo had one less year on his contract, my bad.  Mettenberger might not have had the best supporting cast, but I don't see him as nearly as polished as McCarron.

"Jimmy" was rated as the #1 FA QB for the upcoming season, although he isn't quite a FA.  He looked good in a couple of his outings but I think McCarron's performance against Denver, in Denver, was his crowning achievement.  Granted, they lost, but he took the #1 defense in the NFL to OT.  

A lot of people will think Jimmy is a product of his system, and he really only got to play in one complete game before getting injured towards the end of his second start.  McCarron went six games for the Bengals, I believe, and played well in the playoff game.  

I didn't think McCarron played that well against the Broncos. He played alright, but he wasn't a stud or looked like anything great. Our first two drives he did pretty well, but you have to remember that out receivers probably had some of the best sideline catches I have ever seen from a group of receivers that game. After those 2 drives our offense looked horrible. He fumbled the ball twice in overtime losing us that game too. If I remember correctly we only scored 3 points after our first 2 drives.

[bengalsturntup926]

Where ever mccaron goes, that's where I'm going till Lewis and burfict is gone

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I'd gladly take the Browns' 33rd overall pick. Or the 49er's 34th overall pick, or the Jag's 35th overall pick in a heartbeat.

(12-18-2016, 05:46 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Where ever mccaron goes, that's where I'm going till Lewis and burfict is gone

[Jpoore]

(12-18-2016, 05:46 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Where ever mccaron goes, that's where I'm going till Lewis and burfict is gone

yeah burfict. Whose playing at a all pro level this year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-18-2016, 03:31 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you count the Steelers game as a "start", then Mac made 5 starts including the playoff game. I like you man, but McCarron did not play well in the playoff game. I don't see anyone outside of these boards claiming McCarron had a good playoff game. It was awful honestly. Did he lead a couple good drives late? Sure. But if he'd not been so dreadful for the first 3.5 quarters, we could've ran away with that game. The defense had an absolutely heroic effort...allowing only 15 points to perhaps the best offense in the NFL. McCarron blew it by not being able to put up points against an abysmal defense. 

Jimmy is the superior prospect. A 2nd round pick with a better arm. He actually made things happen (4 TDs and over 450 yards in his 2 starts last year, 30+ points both times), whereas Mac played game manager. Mac played that role well, but it's different than what Garrappolo was asked to do. Jimmy looked more like a guy who may be a future franchise QB.

Now maybe Mac is capable of doing that, but it's not what Hue asked him to do. Hue basically treated him like he wanted to prevent him from making mistakes and let the team lead him to victory, rather than vice versa.

I hear you, but Garappolo had a very small sample size and got two teams (AZ and Miami) that struggled mightily early this year.  He played well enough to win the playoff game, and we can't really hold the QB accountable for the game plan, can we?  That is what Marv does in big games.  Try and keep it close so they can win in the end by a FG.  I hate it, but that is his track record.  AJ couldn't alter that and I loved that he made some really big throws with so much on the line at the end. 

I am not arguing that AJM is a better prospect, but there has to be some weighting to the coaching they were given and the fact that Garappolo had all off-season to prepare for the start of the season without Brady, whereas AJM was thrown in at the time of an injury.

I really like him and hope he gets a shot somewhere, but it has to be a REALLY good offer.  To your point on another post:  if the Pats are going to sign him long term, that improves AJMs value because it is one less QB on the market.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-18-2016, 04:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I didn't think McCarron played that well against the Broncos. He played alright, but he wasn't a stud or looked like anything great. Our first two drives he did pretty well, but you have to remember that out receivers probably had some of the best sideline catches I have ever seen from a group of receivers that game. After those 2 drives our offense looked horrible. He fumbled the ball twice in overtime losing us that game too. If I remember correctly we only scored 3 points after our first 2 drives.

Well, we remember it differently then.  Facing the #1 defense in the NFL in their home stadium in a prime time game???

He had them in position to get another FG and go up 17-0, but Nugent shanked it and the air went out of the team.  A lot of it was good ol Marv, trying to protect a lead with over a half left, and kill some clock.  I remember a lot of runs in to loaded boxes and thinking "AJ was good enough to pass in the beginning, now they are playing to avoid an INT".

Regardless, I give him a lot of credit for what he did to the eventual Super Bowl Champ. 

[*Nately120*]

(12-18-2016, 11:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Regardless, I give him a lot of credit for what he did to the eventual Super Bowl Champ. 

Meh, for some reason I recall an all but spent Rex Grossman starting for Washington and sweeping the Giants who went on to beat the "perfect" Patriots in the SB.  The transitive properties of sports are a fickle thing.  

Anywho, shouldn't we take the Bears off the list of teams we are convinced will trade an absurd pick for McCarron?  They have Matt Barkley who is performing decently in spot-starts, so why trade a high pick for another late-round QB prospect (who is older) in McCarron?

I can't see the future, but I envision us keeping McCarron and then letting him walk when his contract is up, and possibly not giving enough effort/commitment required to get a comp pick. Then again, I don't quite recall off the top of my head how that is evaluated.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-18-2016, 12:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, for some reason I recall an all but spent Rex Grossman starting for Washington and sweeping the Giants who went on to beat the "perfect" Patriots in the SB.  The transitive properties of sports are a fickle thing.  

Anywho, shouldn't we take the Bears off the list of teams we are convinced will trade an absurd pick for McCarron?  They have Matt Barkley who is performing decently in spot-starts, so why trade a high pick for another late-round QB prospect (who is older) in McCarron?

I can't see the future, but I envision us keeping McCarron and then letting him walk when his contract is up, and possibly not giving enough effort/commitment required to get a comp pick.  Then again, I don't quite recall off the top of my head how that is evaluated.

It is primarily a function of the dollars of the contract.  The top 8 (I think) contracts to FA yield the 3rd round compensatory, if there is no "balancing signing" of another FA by the team that lost a FA.  I agree the Bears will likely roll with Barkley, but I still think the Jets, Browns, and Cards could very well be interested in him.  Maybe the Dolphins as well, but I am not sure of the contract status of Tannehill.

[phil413]

On paper, this is an ideal time to trade him but who knows what they do. It's not unthinkable that this FO would let him playout the year as the backup and expect him to fetch a comp pick that could be a 4th like two years from now. That's factoring in no signings....of coarse. I know the FA and draft class is weak, but don't be surprised if their best offer is a Cleveland 3rd, 5th and a CP-like situational pick in 2018 that could jump from a 4th to a 2nd depending on production.

[reuben.ahmed]

we deserve nothing. we are not bill belicheck, we do not groom any player to be traded. we are not smart, we don't make good trades, we don't cut players when they should be cut, we don't win games, who would want our trash.

[*Nately120*]

(12-19-2016, 03:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is primarily a function of the dollars of the contract.  The top 8 (I think) contracts to FA yield the 3rd round compensatory, if there is no "balancing signing" of another FA by the team that lost a FA.  I agree the Bears will likely roll with Barkley, but I still think the Jets, Browns, and Cards could very well be interested in him.  Maybe the Dolphins as well, but I am not sure of the contract status of Tannehill.

It looks like the Cardinals are going to give the Arians/Fitzgerald/Palmer triad one more season and then go into a bit of a rebuild so I'd wager they take a developmental QB pick in the draft rather than trade for a QB.  I could see Palmer and Arians retiring due to health issues after 2017 and Fitzgerald has already said he doesn't plan on sticking around for another QB carousel like the one between Warner and Palmer.

I'm thinking Jets or Browns could want McCarron, but I still think we keep him because Brown can't trade a guy unless he's 100% worthless to us.  Perhaps I'm just being negative.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-19-2016, 08:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It looks like the Cardinals are going to give the Arians/Fitzgerald/Palmer triad one more season and then go into a bit of a rebuild so I'd wager they take a developmental QB pick in the draft rather than trade for a QB.  I could see Palmer and Arians retiring due to health issues after 2017 and Fitzgerald has already said he doesn't plan on sticking around for another QB carousel like the one between Warner and Palmer.

I'm thinking Jets or Browns could want McCarron, but I still think we keep him because Brown can't trade a guy unless he's 100% worthless to us.  Perhaps I'm just being negative.

Well, it is a fair assessment to determine his value as our backup.  I really like the guy, but I don't see him as better than Dalton.  

Another team that might be ready to look at another QB option is Jacksonville.  From what I am hearing, his(Bortles) general mechanics are a disaster.  McCarron could be a good option there.  

Right now, I would say it would be between the Jets, Browns, Jags, Bears, and 49ers.  

As the old saying goes:  "It only takes one"

[*Nately120*]

(12-19-2016, 09:51 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well, it is a fair assessment to determine his value as our backup.  I really like the guy, but I don't see him as better than Dalton.  

Another team that might be ready to look at another QB option is Jacksonville.  From what I am hearing, his(Bortles) general mechanics are a disaster.  McCarron could be a good option there.  

Right now, I would say it would be between the Jets, Browns, Jags, Bears, and 49ers.  

As the old saying goes:  "It only takes one"

I hear ya, I just don't think any of those teams are desperate enough (yet) to provide Mike with the sort of no-brainer trade deal he needs to get his dead arse moving.  The Jets have Petty and Hackenberg to play the "what if" game with for another 3 or so years, the Texans are onto Savage, the Bears got Barkley for free and he's doing what McCarron would be doing there.  That leaves the 49ers, maybe the Jaguars (unless they dupe Romo into running out the clock in Florida, like any good retiree), and the Browns if Hue loves McCarron more than Kessler.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-19-2016, 10:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, I just don't think any of those teams are desperate enough (yet) to provide Mike with the sort of no-brainer trade deal he needs to get his dead arse moving.  The Jets have Petty and Hackenberg to play the "what if" game with for another 3 or so years, the Texans are onto Savage, the Bears got Barkley for free and he's doing what McCarron would be doing there.  That leaves the 49ers, maybe the Jaguars (unless they dupe Romo into running out the clock in Florida, like any good retiree), and the Browns if Hue loves McCarron more than Kessler.

It would probably take an extra sweetener to get McCarron to go to a division rival, but I am putting my money on Jacksonville now.  And Savage has played what was essentially one half against a turd in Jacksonville....If the Bengals show up Saturday (forgot it was another short week, and on the road) they might make him look like he isn't ready and create another need.  

The 49ers are interesting because of their coach, but they are a dumpster fire right now and I don't think Gabbert or Kaepernick is the answer there.

If I had to bet, I am really beginning to think possibly Jacksonville.