POTUS UN Speech

[*PhilHos*]

(09-21-2017, 12:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: I didn't defend the JV comment as much as say why it is different in this case.

So saying it's not the same as Trump's comment is not defending it? Are you saying, then, that it was indeed unpresidential for Obama to say it? Because, it looks to me like you're saying that it's different so as to avoid admitting Obama did something unpresidential. 

(09-21-2017, 12:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: Luckily this hasn't been about "defending Trump" or I'd start to think a closet Trump supporter was in our midst. 

Yep, I've said Trump was unpresidential in  his remarks. Better still call me a Trump supporter. Because THAT'll strengthen your case.

[*bfine32*]

(09-21-2017, 01:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yep, I've said Trump was unpresidential in  his remarks. Better still call me a Trump supporter. Because THAT'll strengthen your case.

If you don't find fault with something in everything POTUS says or does, you are a Trump supporter and most likely a racist.

It can't be that you've accepted the Election results and wish to focus forward positively as opposed to focusing backward with negativity.

[GMDino]

(09-21-2017, 02:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you don't find fault with something in everything POTUS says or does, you are a Trump supporter and most likely a racist.

It can't be that you've accepted the Election results and wish to focus forward positively as opposed to focusing backward with negativity.

What is someone who thinks they are "most likely a racist" when race was never part of the conversation? 

[Arturo Bandini]

Trump speech was terrible at best. Dude is yelling, bullying but he did that so many times that nobody takes him seriously now.

He thinks he's a leader while he's in truth the laughing stock of the world.

[Dill]

(09-20-2017, 09:33 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I personally feel that a hot war will come about only when North Korea has established itself as a nuclear power and only because of that. I believe it is a huge mistake to think that what North Korea is doing is part of a defensive effort. Trump isnt escalating anything in my mind because North Korea already knows what they want to do, they just can't do it yet because their nuclear arsenal is lacking as a deterence to "US Imperialism". 

NK is already a nuclear power.  What is it that NK wants to do?  And what is your speculation based upon?

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 02:05 PM)Do bfine32 Wrote: If you don't find fault with something in everything POTUS says or does, you are a Trump supporter and most likely a racist.

It can't be that you've accepted the Election results and wish to focus forward positively as opposed to focusing backward with negativity.

Your first statement appears to skip over the possibility that Trump makes statements that people could and should legitimately find fault with. Do you deny that Trump makes such statements? It appears that you do.  And I do not think you can find a single example of someone accused of racism for failure to find fault "with something in everything" Trump says or does.

Also, finding fault with some things Trump says is not necessarily finding fault with EVERYTHING Trump says. There would be no point in claiming that unless you thought that people are not finding fault with Trump because there is fault to find, but because of the faultfinders' negativity, arising from their failure to accept election results.  They are the problem, not Trump.

What I don't see in either of your statements is any recognition that public discussion of Trump's "faults" could be useful and necessary to correcting those faults, or at least informing voters that they exist so they can choose more wisely next election.  Someone who has accepted election results and wants to look forward positively should say nothing if Trump violates an ally's trust by giving intel to the Russians, or fires the FBI director to close an investigation into his campaign, or taunts a foreign leader who just joined the nuclear club and is shooting missiles over Japan?

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 05:39 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Trump speech was terrible at best. Dude is yelling, bullying but he did that so many times that nobody takes him seriously now.

He thinks he's a leader while he's in truth the laughing stock of the world.

For the most part, you are right. The US has a "crazy" leader now, a performer like Kruschev or Chavez or Saddam or the current Kim.  This occasions fear, but also scorn and laughter and wonder about what is happening to US voters.

But Trump is well liked in Russia and Saudi Arabia. And his base in the US takes him very seriously.

No one is laughing about that.

[BmorePat87]

Apparently Trump referred to "Namibia" as "Nambia" multiple times. It has blown up online and in the news and the headlines are "Trump invents new country in Africa". They gotta tone down the Trump criticism on this one. He mispronounced it. Should someone have had him practice it before hand? Sure, but, damn, this is what makes people tune out when he says some legit dumb shit.

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 11:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, so it's okay to say something un-presidential as long as it's during an interview that millions of people will see/hear/read but not in a speech that millions of people will see/hear/read. Got it.

Just to be clear--at least one person in this forum does not think Obama's JV comment was "unpresidential." 

The comment was not addressed to ISIS, and it was not "name calling." 

It was part of an well spoken analogy, an explanation, meant to clarify a policy choice by someone who actually understood US foreign policy, past and present.

The context is rather different from that of a UN speech delivered in a moment of public conflict and escalating military action with a nuclear power, and apparently calculated to offend in exactly the same manner childish insults are.

Think of it like this. If Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers fans ask me what I think of the current Browns, I might respond that at the moment they are like a JV team, with young, inexperienced players for the most part. But in two years they will be varsity.

That would be different from a post in the smack forum telling a Browns fan his team would always be the JV of the AFCN.

Imagine at some future date I claim I don't engage name calling with respect to people or football teams, then someone goes back and finds where I called the Browns a "JV team" to prove that I do engage in name calling.

[Matt_Crimson]

(09-21-2017, 06:53 PM)Dill Wrote: NK is already a nuclear power.  What is it that NK wants to do?  And what is your speculation based upon?

I'm talking about them being a legitimate nuclear threat with an accurate and capable arsenal. As far as what they want I think we're just going to have a regurgitated discussion at this point that we've already had.

[*bfine32*]

(09-21-2017, 05:39 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Trump speech was terrible at best. Dude is yelling, bullying but he did that so many times that nobody takes him seriously now.

He thinks he's a leader while he's in truth the laughing stock of the world.

Not sure Japan thinks he's a laughing stock. Matter fact I think they are quite happy with him. I further doubt many other countries thinks he's a laughing stock. Perhaps many UN members pissed that he thinks we shouldn't pay 22% of an organization that consists of 193 Nations.  

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 10:23 AM)michaelsean Wrote: He's been escalating for several years.  Well before Trump was President.  

In your view, is it in Trump's power either 1) to slow or decrease the current conflict with NK, or 2) to hasten or increase the conflict to the point of war?

Or do you see NK's behavior as pretty much independent of anything Trump does?

[StLucieBengal]

(09-21-2017, 10:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Actually, my comment about him making us no longer a leader has nothing to do with the Rocket Man comment, but his overall failures in the realm of foreign affairs. The Rocket Man comment is just an example of his inappropriate behavior that plays well with his base but reflects poorly on us. While I don't like it, I've been unhappy with his performance regarding foreign affairs from the outset due to his treatment of the State Department and his behavior with other world leaders in pretty much every instance where he interacts with them.

He doesn't know how to behave as a statesman. Point blank. But his policy is really why I have an issue, because if he was acting this bad but had a diplomatic corps in place like we usually have, it wouldn't be an issue. But he has neglected that, which is a policy decision, and we suffer as a result.

It's just more fun to mock him for the superficial because most people don't understand policy enough to grasp the underlying issues for my concerns.

His UN speech was pretty much Bush foreign policy. Plus rocket man.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-21-2017, 05:39 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Trump speech was terrible at best. Dude is yelling, bullying but he did that so many times that nobody takes him seriously now.

He thinks he's a leader while he's in truth the laughing stock of the world.

Says the guy with Macron as leader lol.

Come on man......

Trump also told the socialist nations that it doesn't work. They were quiet because they know it's the truth.

[Belsnickel]

(09-21-2017, 09:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: His UN speech was pretty much Bush foreign policy. Plus rocket man.

Yeah, but his actual foreign policy hasn't been as good as Bush. The speech doesn't mean a thing past his lack of professionalism.

[Vlad]

(09-21-2017, 07:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Apparently Trump referred to "Namibia" as "Nambia" multiple times. It has blown up online and in the news and the headlines are "Trump invents new country in Africa". They gotta tone down the Trump criticism on this one. He mispronounced it. Should someone have had him practice it before hand? Sure, but, damn, this is what makes people tune out when he says some legit dumb shit.

When Obama became president someone should have let him know there are 50 states in the union, not 57.

And that Austrian is not a language.

And that the "p" is silent in "corpsman" therefore not pronounced corpse men.

And that comparing his bowling skills to the Special Olympics is not something a president should be saying.

And that describing your grandmother as "a typical white person" is racist.

Of course these all touched on lightly by the leftist mainstream media because Obama is the first black president an we must respect him.

[Vlad]

Unlike Trump, Obama has the ability to turn off or on him sounding presidential.
Obama speaks with no negro dialect unless he wanted to have one...so says Harry Reid.

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 09:53 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Says the guy with Macron as leader lol.

Come on man......

Trump also told the socialist nations that it doesn't work.  They were quiet because they know it's the truth.

China knows its the truth?

[Dill]

(09-22-2017, 12:02 AM)Vlad Wrote: Unlike Trump, Obama has the ability to turn off or on him sounding presidential.
Obama speaks with no negro dialect unless he wanted to have one...so says Harry Reid.

There are dialects based upon regional and cultural differences.

What is a "negro dialect"?

Why do you suppose Trump is unable to "turn on" sounding presidential.

[Dill]

(09-21-2017, 11:39 PM)Vlad Wrote: When Obama became president someone should have let him know there are 50 states in the union, not 57.

And that Austrian is not a language.

And that the "p" is silent in "corpsman" therefore not pronounced corpse men.

And that comparing his bowling skills to the Special Olympics is not something a president should be saying.

And that describing your grandmother as "a typical white person" is racist.

Of course these all touched on lightly by the leftist mainstream media because Obama is the first black president an we must respect him.

"Lightly touched" because, well, that's all pretty light.