Trump Slams Allies in favor of Putin (again)...

[jj22]

(07-17-2018, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure about Mike, but I began to learn about when sources released her attitudes/actions towards Bill's accusers years ago?

Why does the source matter if the action is true?

Because those same people outraged don't care how Trump accusers are treated. And don't slam Melania for staying with Trump and defending him. So it's likely coming from a Fake News source or Russian bots.

Unless you are ready to admit the hypocrisy of Trump supporters....

[Griever]

(07-17-2018, 02:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Because those same people outraged don't care how Trump accusers are treated. And don't slam Melania for staying with Trump and defending him. So it's likely coming from a Fake News source or Russian bots.

Unless you are ready to admit the hypocrisy of Trump supporters....

fat chance

[jj22]

(07-17-2018, 02:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Uhhhhhhhh, men don't get a pass for being "unlikeable" either.

Men are "slobs". Women are just "dressed down."

Men are "creepy". Women are "possibly interested".

Men who cry are "p*ssies" or "weak". Women who cry: it's natural.

How can you say men don't get a pass. Just look at who is President. Hillary never acted like Trump. And look at her rep. Imagine if she did. You think she'd be voted POTUS?

[Griever]

(07-17-2018, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure about Mike, but I began to learn about when sources released her attitudes/actions towards Bill's accusers years ago?

Why does the source matter if the action is true?

couldnt we say the same about the Steele Dossier?

what does it matter who paid for it, if its true?

[*PhilHos*]

(07-17-2018, 02:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: How can you say men don't get a pass. Just look at who is President. Hillary never acted like Trump. And look at her rep. Imagine if she did. You think she'd be voted POTUS?

And most men that acted like Trump would not be voted POTUS. The only reason Trump won was because he ran against Hillary. I bet you anything that had the Democrats nominated ANYONE other than  Hillary, that person would be the president right now.

[Dill]

(07-17-2018, 02:50 PM)jj22 Wrote: The reaction on both sides to yesterday's moment in history gives hope to this notion thatTrump can shoot someone in the middle of NY and get away with it. Is false He went a little too far but it's a shame that it had to get to this point before people (Republicans and Trump supporters) took a stand.

[fredtoast]

Trump makes Hitler look like Jesus.

[Dill]

(07-17-2018, 03:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And most men that acted like Trump would not be voted POTUS. The only reason Trump won was because he ran against Hillary. I bet you anything that had the Democrats nominated ANYONE other than  Hillary, that person would be the president right now.

Was there a Democrat in the field with higher levels of support than Hillary?

Also, Trump beat a field of Republican candidates by affirming the wall, promising a Muslim ban, and insulting liberal women--and Megan Kelly.

Those are also reason's Trump won. Given that, I say it is nationally embarrassing that Hillary's "faults" trumped this program for so many voters.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2018, 03:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And most men that acted like Trump would not be voted POTUS. The only reason Trump won was because he ran against Hillary. I bet you anything that had the Democrats nominated ANYONE other than  Hillary, that person would be the president right now.

So, again, people chose to vote for a "man" who was eminently unelectable because Clinton wasn't "likeable" and spent too long on the public eye?

Anyone who voted for Trump had to overlook every single bad quality he has...all of them...and then say "Yeah, but I just don't 'like' Clinton".  they voted for a loose cannon with no self control, an inability (or desire) to learn anything, who thinks he can just adlib his way out of anything.

That is, IMHO, a stupid way to think.  

But, here we are...

Quick edit: Had the Republicans ran someone other than the con-artist I would may have even voted for them instead.

[GMDino]

Hearing bits and pieces of Trump's apology tour press conference today....

What a beta.

[*Nately120*]

(07-17-2018, 04:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: Hearing bits and pieces of Trump's apology tour press conference today....

What a beta.

Maybe the next non-politician we make president should have an unreasonable obsession with Iran.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-17-2018, 02:06 PM)Dill Wrote: So you are going by someone else's impression. Sometimes that is all or mostly what we have.  I don't reject that in principle.

But I am a person who has "paid attention" (to what, exactly?), and I don't come away with the same impression. My view of her pubic persona comes largely from events such as the debates with Trump and her 9-hour interrogation during the Benghazi hearings.  What I saw was competence--preparation, mastery of detail, understanding of government.

I have never seen anything in her remotely like Trump's bad public behavior, yet that behavior seems to have recommended him to many ("He tells it like it is; no 'political correctness'").

If you were "unlikeable" Hillary's lawyer, and the special counsel subpoenaed her for questioning, would you be worrying about her performance the way Trump's lawyers worry about him testifying without counsel at hand?  Who would you worry about more in a one-on-one with Putin, or interacting with heads of state at an EU summit? Which public persona would your vote be putting in that situation? Those are the questions I want answered before I pull the lever. "likeable" can factor into that, but it cannot displace competence.  Incompetence without likelability--that I don't fathom, and that is what we have.

We are not talking about her performance under oath or at a summit.  We are talking about voters and what they perceive.  And there are several other first hand accounts of her from White house staff.  Everybody liked Bill and nobody liked Hillary.  Now that doesn't make Bill a better person, he's just more likable.  

[*PhilHos*]

(07-17-2018, 03:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: So, again, people chose to vote for a "man" who was eminently unelectable because Clinton wasn't "likeable" and spent too long on the public eye?

I don't know why you put man in quotes. 

No, people chose to vote for a person who was not your typical politican. They believed him to be the lesser of 2 evils and that her foibles were worse than his.

(07-17-2018, 03:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: Anyone who voted for Trump had to overlook every single bad quality he has...all of them...and then say "Yeah, but I just don't 'like' Clinton". 

And anyone who voted for Clinton had to overlook every single bad quality she has.

(07-17-2018, 03:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: That is, IMHO, a stupid way to think.  

I agree. Voting against someone IS a stupid way to think. Probably better to just not vote at all if you don't like either candidate.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2018, 04:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know why you put man in quotes. 

I put it in quotes because he's no man.  He's barely a boy.

(07-17-2018, 04:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, people chose to vote for a person who was not your typical politican. They believed him to be the lesser of 2 evils and that her foibles were worse than his.

Again no problem with voting for "not typical"...problem with voting for con-man liar.

Vote for the devil you know...

(07-17-2018, 04:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And anyone who voted for Clinton had to overlook every single bad quality she has.

And voting for Clinton meant voting for someone who was sane.  So there's that.

(07-17-2018, 04:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I agree. Voting against someone IS a stupid way to think. Probably better to just not vote at all if you don't like either candidate.

Yet here we are....

[*bfine32*]

(07-17-2018, 02:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Because those same people outraged don't care how Trump accusers are treated. And don't slam Melania for staying with Trump and defending him. So it's likely coming from a Fake News source or Russian bots.

Unless you are ready to admit the hypocrisy of Trump supporters....

I will keep this in mind if Melania ever runs for POTUS.

[GMDino]

He said he " misspoke".  

Y'all gotta be SO proud. So proud.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-17-2018, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: I put it in quotes because he's no man.  He's barely a boy.

Gotta love when someone complains about a person who makes personal attacks on people then turns around and makes a personal attack on someone.

(07-17-2018, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Again no problem with voting for "not typical"...problem with voting for con-man liar.

The same could be said for voting for Hillary (minus th "not typical" part) or pretty mcuh ANY politician running for president.

(07-17-2018, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Vote for the devil you know...

Personally, I'd rather not vote for ANY devils.

(07-17-2018, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: And voting for Clinton meant voting for someone who was sane.  So there's that.

That's debatable, but the problem was Clinton was also a horrible candidate, just in ways that differ from Trump.

(07-17-2018, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yet here we are....

Yep. I put the blame on BOTH parties.
And Dinkleberg. :angry:

[GMDino]

(07-17-2018, 05:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Gotta love when someone complains about a person who makes personal attacks on people then turns around and makes a personal attack on someone.


The same could be said for voting for Hillary (minus th "not typical" part) or pretty mcuh ANY politician running for president.

Personally, I'd rather not vote for ANY devils.

That's debatable, but the problem was Clinton was also a horrible candidate, just in ways that differ from Trump.

Yep. I put the blame on BOTH parties.
And Dinkleberg. :angry:

Insulting Trump isn't even really an insult.  He's a walking insult.  I take no shame in it.  

As to the rest:  We had a choice.  And just the right amount of people in the right states pushed a con-man into the office of the POTUS based on...something.

[Dill]

(07-17-2018, 04:23 PM)michaelsean Wrote: We are not talking about her performance under oath or at a summit.  We are talking about voters and what they perceive.  And there are several other first hand accounts of her from White house staff.  Everybody liked Bill and nobody liked Hillary.  Now that doesn't make Bill a better person, he's just more likable.  

Even if that's true, not a good reason to ditch her for Trump. We ought to be more critical of how "perception" is constructed, and ask why it counts so much more regarding some candidates, hardly at all for others.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-17-2018, 05:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: Insulting Trump isn't even really an insult.  He's a walking insult.  I take no shame in it.  

More power to you. Just don't complain when Trump insults somebody. 

(07-17-2018, 05:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: As to the rest:  We had a choice.  And just the right amount of people in the right states pushed a con-man into the office of the POTUS based on...something.

No matter what, a con-person was getting elected POTUS. Just turned out to be a con-man instead of a con-woman.