A True Assessment...

[*psychdoctor*]

The Franchise is at the point of change.  The Dalton-Green era is on the tail end and the Atkins-Dunlap legacy secured but not enough.  

I know many fans on this forum are sick-and-tired of the same old feeling of the season slipping through the tight grip of hope only to look forward to the next draft, the Reds, or even college football.  

But what I would like from members is a true assessment without the hate of Front Office.  

If this team were of full health, meaning if all the player personnel were not on IR, would this team have competed?  Maybe there is merit in the fact the team should have fired Austin earlier than planned.  So lets say if Marvin Lewis was the DC/HC the entire year, would this team have competed for the AFC North title and actually win  a playoff game?

I would have to say even with a healthy Eifert, Gio, Kroft, Price, Brown, and Dennard, this team is missing essential personnel to win. The O-Line isn't there and the backers simply need over-hauled.  Can this be fixed in a year or two via drafts and free-agents? What say you?  

[Hoofhearted]

This team is much better with a healthy Eifert and Tez, but they're still not SB caliber. I say probably a top 10 team, something like that. WC game where they may lose or not - but don't see a deep run in them. And yes, I do think this can be fixed in a year or two. There's philosophical problems with this franchise that will always hold them back from being a true SB contender. I am personally looking forward to the reds now. They've scraped everything they've known on how to do business and are all-in on this new approach. That's exactly what needs to happen in Bengal-land. The NFL is crazy in how soon teams can turn-around if you have the right approach.

[Whatever]

(11-21-2018, 10:17 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Franchise is at the point of change.  The Dalton-Green era is on the tail end and the Atkins-Dunlap legacy secured but not enough.  

I know many fans on this forum are sick-and-tired of the same old feeling of the season slipping through the tight grip of hope only to look forward to the next draft, the Reds, or even college football.  

But what I would like from members is a true assessment without the hate of Front Office.  

If this team were of full health, meaning if all the player personnel were not on IR, would this team have competed?  Maybe there is merit in the fact the team should have fired Austin earlier than planned.  So lets say if Marvin Lewis was the DC/HC the entire year, would this team have competed for the AFC North title and actually win  a playoff game?

I would have to say even with a healthy Eifert, Gio, Kroft, Price, Brown, and Dennard, this team is missing essential personnel to win. The O-Line isn't there and the backers simply need over-hauled.  Can this be fixed in a year or two via drafts and free-agents? What say you?  

I think they would compete for the AFCN title if everyone was healthy.  This was a high scoring offense with Green, Boyd, Ross, Eifert, Gio, and Mixon all healthy.  The right side of the OL is weak, but it was workable with all those guys healthy.

I don't think we ever had Burfict, Brown, and Vigil all healthy and on the field together.  I don't think it would be a strength, but with a healthy, in shape Burfict, this would have been an ok unit.  Of course, a competent DC would be needed to get anything out of them.

I think we would have made the playoffs (still might), but I'm sure we would get totally outcoached and not show up to play.

[*ochocincos*]

The team still needed a replacement for RT and RG than what they've been starting at those positions. I really did think Preston Brown and Burfict would have solidified the LBs but Brown was hurt a lot and Burfict hasn't played like what we expected him to.

I think this team can compete next year if they address RT, RG, and LB in the offseason. I'll add TE too, as I don't want the team to keep gambling on Eifert being healthy, especially after such a horrific injury.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-21-2018, 10:17 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Franchise is at the point of change.  The Dalton-Green era is on the tail end and the Atkins-Dunlap legacy secured but not enough.  

I know many fans on this forum are sick-and-tired of the same old feeling of the season slipping through the tight grip of hope only to look forward to the next draft, the Reds, or even college football.  

But what I would like from members is a true assessment without the hate of Front Office.  

If this team were of full health, meaning if all the player personnel were not on IR, would this team have competed?  Maybe there is merit in the fact the team should have fired Austin earlier than planned.  So lets say if Marvin Lewis was the DC/HC the entire year, would this team have competed for the AFC North title and actually win  a playoff game?

I would have to say even with a healthy Eifert, Gio, Kroft, Price, Brown, and Dennard, this team is missing essential personnel to win. The O-Line isn't there and the backers simply need over-hauled.  Can this be fixed in a year or two via drafts and free-agents? What say you?  

Good post Doc! Ironic as well. As I was logging in the thought that was going through my mind was whether or not the team should be blown up and rebuilt. Obviously, a couple of key pieces would stay, but it's tough to asses them with all of the discord and injuries.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2018, 10:17 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The Franchise is at the point of change.  The Dalton-Green era is on the tail end and the Atkins-Dunlap legacy secured but not enough.  

I know many fans on this forum are sick-and-tired of the same old feeling of the season slipping through the tight grip of hope only to look forward to the next draft, the Reds, or even college football.  

But what I would like from members is a true assessment without the hate of Front Office.  

If this team were of full health, meaning if all the player personnel were not on IR, would this team have competed?  Maybe there is merit in the fact the team should have fired Austin earlier than planned.  So lets say if Marvin Lewis was the DC/HC the entire year, would this team have competed for the AFC North title and actually win  a playoff game?

I would have to say even with a healthy Eifert, Gio, Kroft, Price, Brown, and Dennard, this team is missing essential personnel to win. The O-Line isn't there and the backers simply need over-hauled.  Can this be fixed in a year or two via drafts and free-agents? What say you?  

It's going to have to be done if the organization is serious about winning it all with these guys.

I wasn't too upset with the team until the debacle in Baltimore.  That was on the coaches, IMO.  I knew the oline needed more work, worried about the linebackers going into the season.  I did not anticipate the defense being this bad, but then again, I did not anticipate the hot start the offense got off to either, so it kind of evened out.

As for the personnel, other teams have injuries too, and some of them overcome them, and others don't.  However, that is A LOT of key players to have out at one time.  Even with all of that, they should have won Baltimore.  All you had to do was make Jackson throw the damn ball.

[Bengalitis]

To rebuild means to reinvest, to reinvest means you need to pay up, to pay up means Mike Brown is not gonna do it, when nothing is done, nothing is changed, when nothing is changed, you keep the status quo.

[*bengalfan74*]

Been more competitive without all the injuries ? Absolutely ! I think 10-6 would have been possible. Now would they have went anywhere in the playoffs ? NO

I suspected from the beginning of the season this team was sill a year away from being a true contender. I did not expect the defense to be this bad.

This team will have to make major strides to be competitive next season ! If they don't it's full on rebuild time.

[BengalsBong]

Burfict will never be the player he was in the first few years in the NFL he has regressed since then and it will not stop. Eifert will never play a full season he most likely wont reach 8 games played in a year. Dalton folds in big games against good defenses he has been getting worse the last few years since 2015 he has fell way off. Green is decent but I wont go beyond that he gets striped of the ball to easily and is responsible for a ton of turnovers. And these are your best players.


All teams have injuries every year and they overcome them with depth and good coaching. Our backups are practice squad caliber players at best they have not been properly coached for the most part. Marvin is too set in his ways he thinks he knows it all he has a big head that can do no wrong. He will start Nickerson for the next 10 years here at middle linebacker and wonder why we cant win games. He has been given good players and he has destroyed them basically with his conservative play.


The only thing that will get this team moving in the right direction is a Offensive minded coach. Marvin was a good coach to get when he came here but it was a different game back then. The game has evolved and the coach can not since he is defensive minded. Not saying all defensive minded coaches cant but the one we have has reached the end of his usefulness.

[BengalChris]

Eifert has not had a complete season that I can recall and certainly he's missed more than he's played the last few years. Ross had injury issues in college and came in injured, but was drafted high anyways. Ogbuehi came in injured as well and has ended each of his first three seasons on IR.

Burfict has missed games every year that I can remember and there was a good chance coming into this year that he'd miss more than his 4 game suspension because he always seems to.

So, knowing that, who was suppose to be prepared?

In the end, it's not about if the team could have done it with lots of ifs, but rather did they do it. Under Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis the answer is always the same, they didn't do it.

Pointing out the facts is not hate. It might be a little bit of rubbing their faces in the pile they've left behind, but maybe, just maybe, it'll be enough to get them to snap out of the funk they are in.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-21-2018, 11:54 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Burfict will never be the player he was in the first few years 

The only thing that will get this team moving in the right direction is a Offensive minded coach. Marvin was a good coach to get when he came here but it was a different game back then. The game has evolved and the coach can not since he is defensive minded. Not saying all defensive minded coaches cant but the one we have has reached the end of his usefulness.

Agree, I think Burfict is all but done for several reasons. Injuries, his style of football play is no longer acceptable, (would have been great in the 70's or 80's) the league has a target on his back, and I think his heart is losing interest.

And yes we so very bad need to move on from Marvin ! The game has passed him by and it's evident he can't catch up.

[Millhouse]

Oh I think they are far away from having a chance to make a run in the playoffs.

- right side of line needs properly addressed (though not the reason why offense's suckage has gone up)
- need 2 linebackers, cya Burfict
- need a new QB, see what Driskell can do lol (just my opinion)
- need a good corner unless WJ3 turns it around
- Geno's deal is a bad deal for the team in their current state, money that could be used elsewhere
- need a good DC (obvious)
- need a better OC (pretty obvious)
- need a head coach (huge)

So outside of those minor changes, they actually are pretty close.

[Bengalitis]

(11-21-2018, 12:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree, I think Burfict is all but done for several reasons. Injuries, his style of football play is no longer acceptable, (would have been great in the 70's or 80's) the league has a target on his back, and I think his heart is losing interest.

And yes we so very bad need to move on from Marvin ! The game has passed him by and it's evident he can't catch up.

^^^ This.  Burfict has reached his Adam Jones period. Thank you for your time and memories, but time to move on. It was fun having you and teaching the squeelers a lesson that playing dirty goes both ways.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

From the outset of the year, the 2 glaring weak points were at LB and OL. Injuries have been more than average which has hurt but these two areas were going to hinder any progress into the playoffs. They were mildly addresses during the offseason but no where near the way they should have been if this team really wanted to compete.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I’ve never seen such a collection of talent wasted this badly. It hurts to watch players who were absolute studs in college be turned into duds by the Cincinnati coaches.

[Lionel Hutz]

Even if fully healthy, this team is nowhere near Super Bowl-caliber like Kansas City, New Orleans, Los Angeles Rams, New England Patriots, etc. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, then it time to start the rebuild this offseason (might as well keep trying to win this year as long as they're in the wild card hunt). First move of rebuild is getting rid of Marvin and bringing in a young, offensive-minded head coach (not Hue Jackson). Keep rebuilding the OL via draft for the eventual successor to Dalton. I'd also dangle Dalton for a first round pick (doubtful) or second round draft pick. Dalton's contract is so team-friendly, some QB-desperate team might bite. Bengals could even cut him in 2019 with no cap hit. Worst case, keep Dalton for 2019/2020 but draft his replacement at QB next year or two.

I would also seriously look into moving AJ Green this offseason (if Brandin Cooks brought back a first rounder, so would AJ). He will be on downside of his career by the time Bengals ready to make a real playoff push again. Either way, don't make the mistake the Reds did by hanging on to mediocrity and delaying the rebuild. Worst thing is Bengals go 7-9 or 8-8 next couple of years leading to no playoffs and non-impact draft picks. Make the right moves and Bengals could be back in the playoff hunt by 2021 season, with an actual chance of winning some games once they get there.

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-21-2018, 11:54 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Burfict will never be the player he was in the first few years in the NFL he has regressed since then and it will not stop. Eifert will never play a full season he most likely wont reach 8 games played in a year. Dalton folds in big games against good defenses he has been getting worse the last few years since 2015 he has fell way off. Green is decent but I wont go beyond that he gets striped of the ball to easily and is responsible for a ton of turnovers. And these are your best players.


All teams have injuries every year and they overcome them with depth and good coaching. Our backups are practice squad caliber players at best they have not been properly coached for the most part. Marvin is too set in his ways he thinks he knows it all he has a big head that can do no wrong. He will start Nickerson for the next 10 years here at middle linebacker and wonder why we cant win games. He has been given good players and he has destroyed them basically with his conservative play.


The only thing that will get this team moving in the right direction is a Offensive minded coach. Marvin was a good coach to get when he came here but it was a different game back then. The game has evolved and the coach can not since he is defensive minded. Not saying all defensive minded coaches cant but the one we have has reached the end of his usefulness.

I like this response.  I agree with the new rules the way they are, Burfict and his style have become castigated.  His days are numbered.  

It seems that every team has injuries but the Bengals lack depth and tradition to overcome.  The Bengals as a team folds.  

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-21-2018, 11:57 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Eifert has not had a complete season that I can recall and certainly he's missed more than he's played the last few years. Ross had injury issues in college and came in injured, but was drafted high anyways. Ogbuehi came in injured as well and has ended each of his first three seasons on IR.

Burfict has missed games every year that I can remember and there was a good chance coming into this year that he'd miss more than his 4 game suspension because he always seems to.

So, knowing that, who was suppose to be prepared?

In the end, it's not about if the team could have done it with lots of ifs, but rather did they do it. Under Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis the answer is always the same, they didn't do it.

Pointing out the facts is not hate. It might be a little bit of rubbing their faces in the pile they've left behind, but maybe, just maybe, it'll be enough to get them to snap out of the funk they are in.

I agree to a point.  It seems the decisions from the Front Office leads to a repeating theme...that is; so much potential but never enough.  

But if the players were healthy, with the personnel decisions to get the team at the start of the season, did it appear to be enough?  I don't think so.  I was concerned as many others that the offensive line was porous.  I have been also concerned at the backer position for seemingly years if not freaking decades.  

[*psychdoctor*]

(11-21-2018, 01:41 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’ve never seen such a collection of talent wasted this badly.  It hurts to watch players who were absolute studs in college be turned into duds by the Cincinnati coaches.

This is well said and agreed by many.  So sad.  And unfortunately has been going on since Paul Brown left.  

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2018, 01:41 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’ve never seen such a collection of talent wasted this badly.  

This explains a lot about your opinions.  You just never watch any other NFL teams.  Otherwise you would realize that right now 14 of them have a worse record than the Bengals.

Or are you claiming that the Bengals are the only team that drafts guys who were studs in college?