Pelosi, Schumer To Trump: "Let's Debate Border Funds in Private"

[Au165]

(02-14-2019, 08:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was referencing the string of words followed by one of these (?)

This is why people don’t like having discussions with you. I tried to engage you in a relatively civil conversation and you resort to snarky comments. You asked an obvious rhetorical question you knew the answer to (I mean why would you care who was first so it must be some sort of “gotcha” moment) so why would I waste time going to research it when your obviously doing it in some sort of weird long drawn out scheme? Whoever it was that was first isn’t relative to a death rate. Also I did answer that I don’t challenge someone may have died from immigration but not 12k.

I’ll let you go back and forth with the trolls on the other side of the discussions from now on.

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2019, 08:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is why people don’t like having discussions with you. I tried to engage you in a relatively civil conversation and you resort to snarky comments. You asked an obvious rhetorical question you knew the answer to (I mean why would you care who was first so it must be some sort of “gotcha” moment) so why would I waste time going to research it when your obviously doing it in some sort of weird long drawn out scheme? Whoever it was that was first isn’t relative to a death rate. Also I did answer that I don’t challenge someone may have died from immigration but not 12k.

I’ll let you go back and forth with the trolls on the other side of the discussions from now on.

0 starky comment; simply posed a question that was not answered. Haven't seen where I was not civil; please point it out.

But I'll extend the courtesy to you of answering the question I posed; as not to waste your time:

It was a child from Mexico. 

[Au165]

(02-14-2019, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 0 starky comment; simply posed a question that was not answered. Haven't seen where I was not civil; please point it out.

But I'll extend the courtesy to you of answering the question I posed; as not to waste your time:

I was a child from Mexico. 

Cool, so it was rhetorical and did have no relevance. Glad I didn’t waste my time.

[Mike M (the other one)]

As far as SOE goes, he can do it and there's not much he can't do when he declares it.

He could use that fact that people crossing the border have not been medically cleared to enter the US and "could" cause a TB or some other outbreak.

I'd be more worried about him using it to silence media and make everything Pro-Trump only when you do internet searches. The wall it potatoes compared to the real power he can get from declaring SOE.

When was the last time Congress met to terminate a SOE??? Ever??
Supposed to meet every 6 mons to discuss it, but I don't think they've ever forced one to expire before, so what makes you think they will now?

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2019, 08:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Cool, so it was rhetorical and did have no relevance. Glad I didn’t waste my time.

Of course I knew the answer to make a point (aka rhetorical); which is pretty much the opposite of no relevance.

As to the "snark" (which I don't mind, just don't put words in my mouth or tell me what I said). You might want to go back to the post where you were happy "I proved your point" to find who actually started it in this back and forth; up until then how was it going? (That's a question). 

[Au165]

(02-14-2019, 09:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: When was the last time Congress met to terminate a SOE??? Ever??
Supposed to meet every 6 mons to discuss it, but I don't think they've ever forced one to expire before, so what makes you think they will now?

Issue here is congress already discussed funding the wall and chose not to excerising their constitutional rights to control the purse. He is circumventing them and that may rub them wrong enough to put it to a vote. That vote then puts GOP members in a bad position of officially having to go on record voting for or against a wall and in turn Trump.

[GMDino]

(02-14-2019, 06:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah the mortality rate was about 0.02% that year.

The average yearly mortality rate for the flu is 0.12%

Any idea who was the first person in the US to die from swine flu that year?

I get your point, but are you suggesting no one dies each year from illegal  immigration. 

(02-14-2019, 06:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You didn't answer the question I asked. 

(02-14-2019, 08:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was referencing the string of words followed by one of these (?)

(02-14-2019, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 0 starky comment; simply posed a question that was not answered. Haven't seen where I was not civil; please point it out.

But I'll extend the courtesy to you of answering the question I posed; as not to waste your time:

It was a child from Mexico. 

(02-14-2019, 08:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Cool, so it was rhetorical and did have no relevance. Glad I didn’t waste my time.

(02-14-2019, 09:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course I knew the answer to make a point (aka rhetorical); which is pretty much the opposite of no relevance.

As to the "snark" (which I don't mind, just don't put words in my mouth or tell me what I said). You might want to go back to the post where you were happy "I proved your point" to find who actually started it in this back and forth; up until then how was it going? (That's a question). 

(02-14-2019, 06:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  I have 0 idea why you're allowed to continue to post in this forum. 

[GMDino]

I still haven't seen any true argument in favor of DJT's grab at money by circumventing congress other than he made a "promise" to build a wall.

He has created a problem by metering the amount of immigrants allowed to apply for asylum and bottlenecking the process, but other than that all he has shown is that he is an awful negotiator that doesn't understand how government works so tries to bluff and bully his way through.

The fact that he had McConnell announce it then Sanders and he still hasn't even tweeted about it tells me that he doesn't want his hands dirty...he just wants to be able to campaign and tell his adoring crowds that "got the wall built".  Even as he tells them now that it is either already built, or currently being built...depending on which synapse fires during his rambling "speeches".

But who could have guessed that a 70 year old "man" with a history of lying, conning people, and failure at handling money would be so bad that he had to try and circumvent the rules to make himself look better than he really is?

How could anyone have known?  

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/15/donald-trump-border-wall-national-emergency-uncommon-u-s-history/2876638002/

Quote:National emergencies are common, declaring one for a border wall is not

WASHINGTON – When President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to free up funding for his border wall he will follow a long line of presidents dating back to George Washington who have relied on emergency authority to achieve a goal.
But experts say national emergencies have rarely been used in the way Trump intends.


Trump is expected to declare an emergency as early as Friday as a mechanism to unlock pots of federal money he can then use to build portions of a border barrier, a central promise of his 2016 campaign. He will also sign a bipartisan bill that sets aside $1.375 billion for barriers, far short of the $5.7 billion he has demanded.    


Presidential emergencies often lead to bitter partisan disputes and occasionally wind up in court, but they are relatively common. The United States is already subject to more than 30 national emergencies, including one signed in 1979 by President Jimmy Carter days after the Iranian hostage crisis began.

"They’re declared for all kinds of things," said Kim Lane Scheppele, a professor at Princeton University's Center for Human Values. "They’re absolutely common, which is why nobody blinks an eye about the whole thing – and then you get a case like this."


Since 1976, when Congress passed the National Emergencies Act, presidents have declared at least 58 states of emergency – not counting disaster declarations for weather events, according to the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice. Dozens remain in effect, extended by subsequent presidents.


The Militia Acts of 1792 gave Washington authority to take over state militias during the Whiskey Rebellion. In perhaps the best-known use of emergency powers from history, President Abraham Lincoln established a blockade on the ports of Southern states and suspended habeas corpus without congressional approval.


In modern times, presidents have far more frequently used emergency powers to impose sanctions. They have sometimes used them to seize property and call up the National Guard. 

After the terrorist attacks in 2001, President George W. Bush signed an order giving him broad powers. A subsequent executive order, signed in November of that year, activated the same law the White House may be considering now for the wall –  a provision that allowed the president to redirect military construction money for other purposes. 


In 2009, President Barack Obama declared a state of national emergency for the H1N1 swine flu pandemic. That emergency, which expired a year later, allowed for waivers of some Medicare and Medicaid regulations – for example, permitting hospitals to screen or treat an infectious illness off-site – and to waive medical privacy laws.

Elizabeth Goitein, co-director of the Brennan Center’s Liberty and National Security Program, said few would have disputed that a state of emergency existed after the 9/11 attacks. The president's emergency powers, she said, were conceived as a way to give the president the ability to act when Congress didn't have time to do so.

In the case of immigration or a border wall, Goitein said, Congress had plenty of time but chose not to act.
"This is a situation in which the powers are being used to get around the express will of Congress," she said. "That is particularly problematic."


Trump has signed three executive orders that relied in part on the National Emergencies Act, including an order in September that gave him power to slap sanctions on any foreign country that interferes in a U.S. election. That action was taken after criticism that Trump did not do enough to confront Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.


Experts said the idea of using a national emergency to build the president’s promised border wall would be novel, and both Democrats and outside groups have threatened to sue. White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Thursday that the administration was prepared for those challenges if they come.  


Under the National Emergencies Act, the president must cite the specific emergency powers he is activating. According to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, there are hundreds of "provisions of federal law delegating to the executive extraordinary authority in time of national emergency."

Congress can terminate a declared emergency, but it requires a joint resolution – a high hurdle. Democrats in power at the House of Representatives would have to convince Republicans who control the Senate to join them in blocking Trump's move. Then they would have to get a signature from the president, the same person who declared the emergency in the first place, or override his veto.

The law requires Congress to “meet to consider a vote” on each emergency every six months. In 43 years of the National Emergencies Act, Congress has never done so.




Aside from the legal questions, there are politics in play, too. 



Any member of Congress can introduce a resolution to cancel a presidential emergency, a move House Democrats said Thursday they are preparing to do. That would force a vote on the issue, putting Republicans in an uncomfortable position. Polls indicate the a majority of Americans oppose Trump using a national for a border wall. 


But a majority of Republicans support it. 


After Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast in 2005, Bush declared a national emergency to suspend prevailing wage laws on federal contracts to rebuild the region. When then-Rep. George Miller, a California Democrat, introduced a resolution to stop that emergency, Bush capitulated before Congress ever held a vote.

[Vas Deferens]

KBR is going to clean the **** up for a couple of months and still... no wall.

[hollodero]

What a speech right now.

As of now, I'm pretty sure Trump demanded death penalty for drug dealers... likes mass murderer Kim a lot... obviously believes that other countries put "not their stars" and bad people on the US immigration lottery and that's how it works... lamented his not getting a nobel prize... claimed that Obama told him he is so close to go to war with North Korea... doesn't get that China does not pay the tariffs... and thinks that bad hombres can walk around a not-so-long wall to get in, except obviously in El Paso, where a not so long wall solved anything. And that's just what I remember.
Oh, and claimed he doesn't need to do the emergency, he just wants to. What an emergency!

And Rosenstein really would bother to carry a wire.

[GMDino]

(02-15-2019, 01:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: What a speech right now.

As of now, I'm pretty sure Trump demanded death penalty for drug dealers... likes mass murderer Kim a lot... obviously believes that other countries put "not their stars" and bad people on the US immigration lottery and that's how it works... lamented his not getting a nobel prize... claimed that Obama told him he is so close to go to war with North Korea... doesn't get that China does not pay the tariffs... and thinks that bad hombres can walk around a not-so-long wall to get in, except obviously in El Paso, where a not so long wall solved anything. And that's just what I remember.
Oh, and claimed he doesn't need to do the emergency, he just wants to. What an emergency!

And Rosenstein really would bother to carry a wire.

His supporters are very proud because he "speaks his mind".

[Mike M (the other one)]

Now it begins.
He declared it.

[GMDino]

(02-15-2019, 02:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Now it begins.
He declared it.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/430122-doj-warns-white-house-that-national-emergency-will-likely-be-blocked

Quote:DOJ warns White House that national emergency will likely be blocked: report
 
The Department of Justice (DOJ) has warned the White House that the courts are likely to block a national emergency declaration to build a wall along the southern border, according to ABC News.

The White House, however, remains confident that it can win on appeal and ultimately have such a declaration approved by the courts, ABC News reported.

The DOJ declined comment to The Hill. The White House did not return a request for comment.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) announced Thursday that President Trump plans to bypass Congress to get border wall funding by declaring a national emergency. Trump also plans to sign a bill to fund the government, preventing another shutdown. The legislation does not include the amount of funding Trump wants for a wall.

The White House confirmed Trump's plans to declare a national emergency.

“President Trump will sign the government funding bill, and as he has stated before, he will also take other executive action - including a national emergency - to ensure we stop the national security and humanitarian crisis at the border,” White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Thursday. 
 
Trump has suggested for weeks that he would declare a national emergency if Congress wouldn't approve more than $5 billion in funding for a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. He has said a wall is necessary to counter what he describes as a "humanitarian crisis" at the border.
 
Lawmakers, including some Republicans, have warned that declaring a national emergency would bring an immediate legal challenge. 
 
Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said Thursday that the emergency declaration “will be challenged in court and is of dubious constitutionality.”

“It undermines the role of Congress and the appropriations process and it’s just not good policy,” she added.  

[*Nately120*]

Is Trump accidentally fostering unity across the major parties by turning everyone against him?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-15-2019, 02:08 PM)GMDino Wrote:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/430122-doj-warns-white-house-that-national-emergency-will-likely-be-blocked

Like we didn't see a challenge coming?
Hasn't the Democrats already been trying to pass legislature to prevent him from taking funds from various places? But failed obviously??

Send it to the Supreme Court.. Oh wait, he knew that would happen. SCOTUS does not normally go against a POTUS before as long as it's with in his power, which it is, so clear to go.

  :andy:

[*Nately120*]

How much actual evidence is required for a president to declare a "national emergency" and therefore do whatever he wants?

[GMDino]

(02-15-2019, 02:18 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Like we didn't see a challenge coming?
Hasn't the Democrats already been trying to pass legislature to prevent him from taking funds from various places? But failed obviously??

Send it to the Supreme Court.. Oh wait, he knew that would happen. SCOTUS does not normally go against a POTUS before as long as it's with in his power, which it is, so clear to go.

  :andy:

Of course we saw it coming.  Even Trump (king of the lawsuits) knew he would be challenged.  

Oh and...  

https://www.ranker.com/list/president-supreme-court-clashes/ranker-news

Guess we will see if a POTUS using his powers to pay for a campaign promise is the same.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2019, 02:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Of course we saw it coming.  Even Trump (king of the lawsuits) knew he would be challenged.  

Oh and...  

https://www.ranker.com/list/president-supreme-court-clashes/ranker-news

Guess we will see if a POTUS using his powers to pay for a campaign promise is the same.

I don't think Trump can lose, really.  If he gets his wall then he has his monument to his ego, and if his demands for a wall are blocked he can always say that he was going to get all sorts of great things done as president but the system simply wouldn't let him succeed.  That actually works double if he doesn't want or doesn't win a 2nd term.

The guy has his bases covered, I'll give him that.

[fredtoast]

(02-14-2019, 06:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get your point, but are you suggesting no one dies each year from illegal  immigration. 

No one is suggesting that.  But keep building straw men when you don't have legitimate arguments.

When did this national emergency at the border begin?

How many will die if we don't build this wall and how many will die if we do??