Impeachment Hearings

[jj22]

So what I'm learning and what Trump and his supporters are getting slammed about, is all politicians kids can be attacked (Obama's/Bidens/Clintons) but someone can't mention the name of Barron....

Whose the snowflake again.

Social media won the day today.

The fake outrage was called out and should have been given the attacks on Bidens son all this time.

Are political opponents kids off limits or not?

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2019, 05:13 PM)hollodero Wrote: On my god. She used his name, an information already publicly available (she didn't exactly out him), for a play of words to make a point. She did not diminish him, she did not drag him into it in any kind, nothing about her words are designed to hurt any feelings. This outrage is so awfully artificial and it's actually painful how eagerly you jump on it.

Typical snowflakes.  If you even mention the name of the President's son in public they fall apart.

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 11:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Everyone's entitled to their point of view on this one. If she was unhappy then she was unhappy. I personally don't care. The comment was, at least when I read it, more about Donald than it was about Barron as it spoke to his mentality more than anything. But that's just my opinion.

(12-05-2019, 05:13 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I don't know why that is. My best guess would be that it's not that easy to find legal experts that throw their name and reputation behind a "this is not impeachable" stance.
The one GOP guy did not exonerate Trump at all, he basically just argued to take it slower.



On my god. She used his name, an information already publicly available (she didn't exactly out him), for a play of words to make a point. She did not diminish him, she did not drag him into it in any kind, nothing about her words are designed to hurt any feelings. This outrage is so awfully artificial and it's actually painful how eagerly you jump on it.

Meanwhile, Trump called Schiff “a maniac, a deranged human being. I think he grew up with a complex for lots of reasons that are obvious. I think he’s a very sick man, and he lies.” - but you have nothing to say about that at all. But go for that witness' throat in full force, for a piece of nothing she even apologized for. This "attack the Dems at every turn possible and be an advocate for the GOP at every turn possible" is getting really old.

And it annoys me since you usually storm in as a self-declared beacon of reason and objectivity, a grown-up amongst children and a honest broker - and then make distorted, ultrapartisan points like a FOX host.

Of course no one would care if someone made a comment about the name Sasha. "Obama can call name his daughter Sasha, but that doesn't make her Eastern European".

My view on bringing the children into the discussion, no matter the purpose, is in poor taste. It has been since Amy Carter. Some folks just have different views. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 06:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Typical snowflakes.  If you even mention the name of the President's son in public they fall apart.

I must have misread the quote. I didn't realize all she did was mention the name and unsure how I "fell apart". 

As I said, my views of using the children is different than most in this forum. I learned that early during the Potty-Mouthed Princesses thread. 

[hollodero]

(12-05-2019, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course no one would care if someone made a comment about the name Sasha. "Obama can call name his daughter Sasha, but that doesn't make her Eastern European".

Say what now?

(12-05-2019, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My view on bringing the children into the discussion, no matter the purpose, is in poor taste. It has been since Amy Carter. Some folks just have different views. 

It is in poor taste, and she apologized for it.
Nothing however justifies the overly hefty reaction it got. Including from FLOTUS and very much including yours.

These disingenuous attacks are the best defense Trump has, and you willingly preach to the right-wing distraction choir by turning a nothing topic into a huge deal. While actual matters of highest national interest and a corrupt presidency are discussed. No, no, don't mind that! Look over here! Look over there! A Dem scandal! Another Dem scandal!
--- Disingenuous.

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 09:15 PM)hollodero Wrote: Say what now?



It is in poor taste, and she apologized for it.
Nothing however justifies the overly hefty reaction it got. Including from FLOTUS and very much including yours.

These disingenuous attacks are the best defense Trump has, and you willingly preach to the right-wing distraction choir by turning a nothing topic into a huge deal. While actual matters of highest national interest and a corrupt presidency are discussed. No, no, don't mind that! Look over here! Look over there! A Dem scandal! Another Dem scandal!
--- Disingenuous.

I don't know how else to type it. What would be your opinion is a conservative had said: "Obama can call his daughter Sasha, but that doesn't make her Eastern European (the origin of the name)?


In your opinion: What was my "over hefty" reaction? I simply mentioned one of those "non-political" folks you praised brought POTUS' son into the circus. 

[BmorePat87]

What was Melania's response when Trump took to twitter to mock that 16 year old environmental activist?

The Barron comment was a bad attempt at a pun that wasn't at the expense of the child. She shouldn't have said it, but it wasn't mean spirited. Trump openly mocked a child on twitter.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2019, 09:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't know how else to type it. What would be your opinion is a conservative had said: "Obama can call his daughter Sasha, but that doesn't make her Eastern European (the origin of the name)?

Puh. I don't know. I don't even recognize that one as a fitting comparison. Also, that sentence makes no sense, why would she be Eastern European and what point could be made? I really want to respond, but I do not know how. I guess your point with that hypothetical is to prove (yet one more exhausting time) how Dems are hypocritical, but why you put that one out there really doesn't compute with me.

I know what conservatives have to say when Trump calls Schiff a sick, deranged human being with childhood complexes. Which is, absolutely nothing. And whoever has nothing to say to things like that but accuses a Dem witness of "dragging Trump's son into it" and being way off limits reveals himself to be driven by blatant partisanship.

(12-05-2019, 09:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In your opinion: What was my "over hefty" reaction? I simply mentioned one of those "non-political" folks you praised brought POTUS' son into the circus. 

Your sentence holds the contradiction in itself: You put "non-politicians" in quotation marks, as if they weren't really non-politicians.
And you prove it by mentioning the baron episode.
In short, you imply they are indeed political and dislike Trump and that's what drives them. Not facts, not the law, not the constitution, but their alleged political afiliation. By that you perpetuate a rhetoric of distraction and dismissal.

...it's already too hefty to accuse folks of "dragging his son into it" based onto this baron/Barron wordplay, especially since Barron's privacy or his dignity unarguably aren't hurt in any way by that. You mentioned FLOTUS and her also overly hefty reaction. And you did so in response to me calling the professors "educated non-politicians".

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 09:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What was Melania's response when Trump took to twitter to mock that 16 year old environmental activist?

The Barron comment was a bad attempt at a pun that wasn't at the expense of the child. She shouldn't have said it, but it wasn't mean spirited. Trump openly mocked a child on twitter.

Is this that much frowned upon "whataboutisim"? 

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 10:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: Puh. I don't know. I don't even recognize that one as a fitting comparison. Also, that sentence makes no sense, why would she be Eastern European and what point could be made? I really want to respond, but I do not know how. I guess your point with that hypothetical is to prove (yet one more exhausting time) how Dems are hypocritical, but why you put that one out there really doesn't compute with me.

I know what conservatives have to say when Trump calls Schiff a sick, deranged human being with childhood complexes. Which is, absolutely nothing. And whoever has nothing to say to things like that but accuses a Dem witness of "dragging Trump's son into it" and being way off limits reveals himself to be driven by blatant partisanship.



Your sentence holds the contradiction in itself: You put "non-politicians" in quotation marks, as if they weren't really non-politicians.
And you prove it by mentioning the baron episode.
In short, you imply they are indeed political and dislike Trump and that's what drives them. Not facts, not the law, not the constitution, but their alleged political afiliation. By that you perpetuate a rhetoric of distraction and dismissal.

...it's already too hefty to accuse folks of "dragging his son into it" based onto this baron/Barron wordplay, especially since Barron's privacy or his dignity unarguably aren't hurt in any way by that. You mentioned FLOTUS and her also overly hefty reaction. And you did so in response to me calling the professors "educated non-politicians".

If you don't want to answer how you'd feel if a conservative made the comments toward's Sasha's name, no one can make you.

So it was "overly heafty" to accuse her of dragging his son into a situation, in which, she dragged his son into. As I said: think of it what you will; but these folks should keep the children's names out of their mouths.

As to FLOTUS' reaction: It's her child. What do you expect? 

BTW, where did I state "non-politicians"?

[hollodero]

(12-05-2019, 10:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you don't want to answer how you'd feel if a conservative made the comments toward's Sasha's name, no one can make you.

This seems to be a particular pet peeve of yours. How does stuff make me feel when a liberal said it to a conservative, a conservative said it to a liberal and all that stuff. You know what I'd feel if someone used a liberal's child name in a non-derogatory, non-descriptive way? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

This is not about feelings towards conservatives in the first place. Certainly not for me, I can easily find all of you weird. You know what I think when I learn someone's a conservative? Little to nothing initially. Says nothing about his smarts or his decency.
When he then constantly finds all kinds of cheap accusations against Dems or liberals while silently swallowing at least almost everything horrendous coming from Trump, I start to think, oh that person actually puts an agenda over good reason. No matter how indigantly he says no and that it's actually those liberals that are doing so, see hypothetical example 1. But such a person can still "drag Obama's daughter into it", like according to your standards you already absolutely did by saying her name, and I would not complain about it. I think it's a bit dull that's all.

(12-05-2019, 10:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So it was "overly heafty" to accuse her of dragging his son into a situation, in which, she dragged his son into. As I said: think of it what you will; but these folks should keep the children's names out of their mouths.

As to FLOTUS' reaction: It's her child. What do you expect? 

For FLOTUS? I expect her not to react in any way. Because nothing of real note happened. Someone just said his name that's all.

I have to say though. Those that complain about dragging Trump's son into it do quite a job of thereby actually dragging Trump's son into it. They sure do not keep his name out of their mouths now, do they. At this point, his whole being dragged into things is actually on overheftily complaining Republicans, including the TRump campaign, not on the professor.

She made a rhetorical mishap not meant to be malicious in any way and apologized for it. If it were really about Barron's privacy, that would have been the end of it.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2019, 10:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: BTW, where did I state "non-politicians"?

"non-political". I mistyped. But that doesn't change anything. You implied they were actually political.

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 11:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: This seems to be a particular pet peeve of yours. How does stuff make me feel when a liberal said it to a conservative, a conservative said it to a liberal and all that stuff. You know what I'd feel if someone used a liberal's child name in a non-derogatory, non-descriptive way? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

This is not about feelings towards conservatives in the first place. Certainly not for me, I can easily find all of you weird. You know what I think when I learn someone's a conservative? Little to nothing initially. Says nothing about his smarts or his decency.
When he then constantly finds all kinds of cheap accusations against Dems or liberals while silently swallowing at least almost everything horrendous coming from Trump, I start to think, oh that person actually puts an agenda over good reason. No matter how indigantly he says no and that it's actually those liberals that are doing so, see hypothetical example 1. But such a person can still "drag Obama's daughter into it", like according to your standards you already absolutely did by saying her name, and I would not complain about it. I think it's a bit dull that's all.


For FLOTUS? I expect her not to react in any way. Because nothing of real note happened. Someone just said his name that's all.

I have to say though. Those that complain about dragging Trump's son into it do quite a job of thereby actually dragging Trump's son into it. They sure do not keep his name out of their mouths now, do they. At this point, his whole being dragged into things is actually on overheftily complaining Republicans, including the TRump campaign, not on the professor.

She made a rhetorical mishap not meant to be malicious in any way and apologized for it. If it were really about Barron's privacy, that would have been the end of it.

I see the concept of analogy is lost on you. 

Your expectations of a mother not reacting when their child is introduced in such a circus is naive

It's hilarious that you now blame this on complaining Republicans. They most likely should not have brought it up and just rolled with it. Amifight?

It's amazing you understand her intent and know no malice was involved. She most likely was just saying. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-05-2019, 11:51 PM)hollodero Wrote: "non-political". I mistyped. But that doesn't change anything. You implied they were actually political.

You didn't mistype as you expounded on the thought, but whatever.

I meant to imply they were actually political. It changes a whole lot. I actually bolded your sentence that used the word political

Are members of this forum actually political? 

[BmorePat87]

(12-05-2019, 10:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is this that much frowned upon "whataboutisim"? 

Nah. I'm not excusing Karlan's comments by invoking Trump's. "Yea, well what about Trump?!?"

I'm asking a hypothetical question of what Melania's response to her husband doing something similar was as a way to suggest there's no integrity behind her outrage. 

[NATI BENGALS]

I don't care if the prez had a son named maggot shit............


God damn... It doesn't change the obvious abuse of power and the desire/invitation of foreign interference in our election. Pretty similar to the scumbag shit he did in front of the whole world in 2016 asking Russia to hack his political opponent. But once again trumpets dont care about country though, they are a party over country group of lemmings.

[hollodero]

(12-06-2019, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You didn't mistype as you expounded on the thought, but whatever.

I meant to imply they were actually political. It changes a whole lot

I used the correct "political" later on. And ok you do not disagree. So it is not a stretch that you'd also imply their statement was based peimarily on their political views. And not primarily on their expertise.

Which I find unfair to begin with.

(12-06-2019, 12:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Are members of this forum actually political? 

Sure. But when they are witnesses of a car crash caused by a conservative and say so to the police, I don't accuse them of just giving that statment because they are biased. That seems to be the Trump play though, see: whistleblower.

[hollodero]

(12-05-2019, 11:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I see the concept of analogy is lost on you. 

Your expectations of a mother not reacting when their child is introduced in such a circus is naive

Yeah what do I know about her situation. But sure, generally I'd argue that not reacting would have diverted more spotlight than reacting did.
Since I anticipate a certain response: By that I do not intend to attack or blame her.

(12-05-2019, 11:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's hilarious that you now blame this on complaining Republicans. They most likely should not have brought it up and just rolled with it. Amifight?

Yes, they should not have brought it up. There was nothing to "roll with", since there was no attack on Barron Trump. Again, the professor apologized and everyone truly concerned about Barron's privacy would have let it go. Instead of trying to make a political point out of it and by that creating a bigger fuzz about Trump's son than the professor ever could have.

(12-05-2019, 11:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's amazing you understand her intent and know no malice was involved. She most likely was just saying. 

It's amazing how you obviously know there was malice involved.

[GMDino]

A minor child deserves privacy and should be kept out of politics. Pamela Karlan, you should be ashamed of your very angry and obviously biased public pandering, and using a child to do it.

— Melania Trump (@FLOTUS) December 4, 2019

 






Trump asked a foreign leader to announce an investigation into a political rival's family.  He also talked about a repeatedly disproven conspiracy theory as if it were truth that needs looked into.


He used his personal lawyer AND the AG to try and get the Biden investigation done all while knowing he was withholding congressionally approved funding and denying a meeting that Ukraine wanted.


The Baron stuff is gop noise becuase they have no respect for the child but know that they can bluster and not really say anything about it but it distracts from Trump...whom they have attached too and cannot let go.


Sad.

[Au165]

(12-06-2019, 12:20 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Nah. I'm not excusing Karlan's comments by invoking Trump's. "Yea, well what about Trump?!?"

I'm asking a hypothetical question of what Melania's response to her husband doing something similar was as a way to suggest there's no integrity behind her outrage. 

It's the same as most people who want kids to be tougher today, but when their kid gets beat up or bullied they lose their shit and show up at school ready to beat the other kid up. In reality, most people's views on things change as soon as it includes their own family. It's like the story I read the other day about a lady who was a conservative who viewed paternal leave as a hand out...until she had kids and realized their family is barely getting by and now views it as a necessity.