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(12-17-2019, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I've said: Don't start none won't be none.
Back when this forum first started I asked for a stricter moderation when it come to ad hominem attacks as "self-moderation" was out of control. I further recommended we do a "reboot" and all start fresh. This was met with general ridicule and I was suspended 3 month for "questioning moderation".
I'm fully willing to engage in civil discourse, but also will go to the gutter if the conversation heads that way.
Yeah I can't add much to that. I also did not talk so much about a gutter as that in general, many question someone else's motivations and allegiances and biases rather than the point at hand.
Case in point, on the Syria retreat you actually totally agreed with Dino, but still criticised him for once again "being against Trump no matter what". I know many do that, and it might have some merits at times, I just figured "look who's talking". It wasn't meant in a particular bad way and it wasn't about ad hominem.
Why folks need to throw in derogatory descriptions of their opponent, I do not know.
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Mitch sounds beat down.
He want the Democrats to vote against or stop the procedure (obviously) but probably more because he's afraid of losing the gop on motions.
That he starts by complaining about Schumer going on television is laughable when he's out defending DJT who makes presidential delcarations via twitter.
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The issue Trump supporters/defenders keep finding themselves in is Trump keeps putting yall in bad situations to where you have to meltdown over bringing up a kids name but a week later he (a 72 year old man) is attacking a special needs kid. Just inexcusable for anyone in the Oval Office regardless of politics. Especially the candidate the religious right wants as our moral compass (Jesus wept, but Trump is sending them all to Hell and well, they get what they deserve).
Now his defenders are stuck trying to equate the two when their is no equivalence. But that's the only way they can cover for the previous weeks outrage.
It's like you guys never learn. He isn't the type of character to stand up and defend. His supporters will always end up with their foot in their mouth. These are good people, specifically on this board, but why do you keep setting yourself up? I just don't get it. Anyone who defends Trump ends up with mud on them and yet they continue to walk right into his traps.
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There is NO CHANCE DJT wrote this. He probably never read it...it's too long and there's only one picture.
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(12-17-2019, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is NO CHANCE DJT wrote this. He probably never read it...it's too long and there's only one picture.
Trump is now on television and based on his "words" there is even LESS a chance he wrote that letter.
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Him crying about due process as he won't allow those close to him to testify is lame.
He refused to even send his legal representation to represent him. This letter is comedy.
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(12-17-2019, 04:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: Him crying about due process as he won't allow those close to him to testify is lame.
He refused to even send his legal representation to represent him. This letter is comedy.
In all honesty I think DJT believes he would win an actual trial. And I don't think he cares how long it drags out because that is his usual strategy when sued.
He wants Biden and House Democrats and the "fake whistleblower" (lol) to testify too.
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It's now officially the beginning of the end, for all of those who sought to take down the President. The FISA court just released a very damning statement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/us/politics/fisa-court-order-fbi-surveillance.html
Quote:WASHINGTON — A secretive federal court accused the F.B.I. on Tuesday of misleading it about the factual basis for wiretapping a former Trump campaign adviser and ordered the bureau to propose changes in how investigators seek permission for some national security surveillance.
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(12-17-2019, 06:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's now officially the beginning of the end, for all of those who sought to take down the President. The FISA court just released a very damning statement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/us/politics/fisa-court-order-fbi-surveillance.html
How so? The FISA court is telling the FBI to give them an explanation of how they will respond to the procedural errors to ensure it doesn't happen again. It doesn't change the fact that the IG report found no bias against Trump or an effort to, as you are putting it, "take down the President".
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(12-17-2019, 04:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is NO CHANCE DJT wrote this. He probably never read it...it's too long and there's only one picture.
This sophomoric, incoherent rant on presidential letterhead will be one of the historical low points of the office.
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(12-17-2019, 10:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: How so? The FISA court is telling the FBI to give them an explanation of how they will respond to the procedural errors to ensure it doesn't happen again. It doesn't change the fact that the IG report found no bias against Trump or an effort to, as you are putting it, "take down the President".
Fair enough. We can revisit this, in the Spring, and see which way it all goes.
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(12-17-2019, 10:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This sophomoric, incoherent rant on presidential letterhead will be one of the historical low points of the office.
Don't know if you saw but a report says DJT didn't let his lawyers help but did let Stephen Miller.
Apparently his legal team or his legal advisers have said they had nothing to do with the letter.
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(12-17-2019, 06:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's now officially the beginning of the end, for all of those who sought to take down the President. The FISA court just released a very damning statement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/us/politics/fisa-court-order-fbi-surveillance.html
The scripture tells us that God uses evil for good. I believe he has used this Presidency to do just that. POTUS is overt in his actions and motives. There are those elected officials on both sides that have maneuvered in such ways that they will be required to reap what they sow for some time.
Hopefully, the admin could be the end of the 2 party system. We just need influential folks from both sides to react to the circus.
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/17/21025974/rudy-giuliani-laura-ingraham-yovanovitch-forced-out
Giuliani went on Fox and claimed he was responsible for getting rid of former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch because she was "corrupt" because she was refusing visas for people trying to come to the US to expose corruption about the Bidens.
The reality is she denied Viktor Shokin's visa because he lied on it, claiming he was visiting family when he was really going to visit Giuliani.
The other problem with Giuliani's claim is that the official GOP report on the impeachment inquiry claims that the White House was responsible for preventing the visa because of concerns that Giuliani meeting with him would be improper.
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It's unclear what Trump means by "In Guatemala they handle things much tougher than that" in response to his frustration that he cannot prosecute Adam Schiff for paraphrasing Trump's call to Zelensky. When asked to clarify, he just said "Guatemala is terrific".
Just so we're clear, the President is saying he wants to prosecute members of Congress for their actions in working towards impeaching him and referenced a nation known for using death squads against political opponents.
Solid moment in our nation's history.
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(12-18-2019, 01:09 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote:
It's unclear what Trump means by "In Guatemala they handle things much tougher than that" in response to his frustration that he cannot prosecute Adam Schiff for paraphrasing Trump's call to Zelensky. When asked to clarify, he just said "Guatemala is terrific".
Just so we're clear, the President is saying he wants to prosecute members of Congress for their actions in working towards impeaching him and referenced a nation known for using death squads against political opponents.
Solid moment in our nation's history.
A paraphrase is when different words are used to convey the same meaning. If you convey a different meaning, then you haven't paraphrased. At the very least Trump's criticism of Schiff mis-quoting him is fair.
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(12-18-2019, 08:26 AM)6andcounting Wrote: A paraphrase is when different words are used to convey the same meaning. If you convey a different meaning, then you haven't paraphrased. At the very least Trump's criticism of Schiff mis-quoting him is fair.
This interpretation is valid if you incorrectly believe that Trump was not asking Zelensky to investigate completely made up things, which he was.
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(12-18-2019, 01:01 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/17/21025974/rudy-giuliani-laura-ingraham-yovanovitch-forced-out
Giuliani went on Fox and claimed he was responsible for getting rid of former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch because she was "corrupt" because she was refusing visas for people trying to come to the US to expose corruption about the Bidens.
The reality is she denied Viktor Shokin's visa because he lied on it, claiming he was visiting family when he was really going to visit Giuliani.
The other problem with Giuliani's claim is that the official GOP report on the impeachment inquiry claims that the White House was responsible for preventing the visa because of concerns that Giuliani meeting with him would be improper.
As I read elsewhere last night:
Either they actually believe there is nothing wrong with all of this or they think if they admit what they did in public they can't be held responsible for some reason.
This is like the dumbest Clint Eastwood/Old Gang movie ever made.
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