Impeachment Hearings

[BmorePat87]

(02-01-2020, 10:12 AM)GMDino Wrote:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/30/politics/trump-impeachment-subpoena-hearing/index.html



No, the hypocrisy is on one side.  The Democrats want to enforce the subpoenas and if the court says they can't they need another option to perform oversight.  Trump and the gop want to cover everything up and never have to answer anything at all.

Schiff called the defense teams arguments on subpoenas bad faith arguments during his time to talk for the witness vote. He pointed out that they said the House should have gone to court to enforce subpoenas and then mentioned that they have been trying to subpoena McGahn for 9 months but the White House is arguing in court that the courts have no jurisdiction to even see the case, essentially saying that there’s no legal path for the House to have a subpoena enforced against the White House.

You should have gone to the courts even though our argument in the courts is you can’t do that...

[GMDino]

(02-01-2020, 10:21 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Schiff called the defense teams arguments on subpoenas bad faith arguments during his time to talk for the witness vote. He pointed out that they said the House should have gone to court to enforce subpoenas and then mentioned that they have been trying to subpoena McGahn for 9 months but the White House is arguing in court that the courts have no jurisdiction to even see the case, essentially saying that there’s no legal path for the House to have a subpoena enforced against the White House.

You should have gone to the courts even though our argument in the courts is you can’t do that...

All the while the senate gop claims "no cover up".

Sadly the only hope is that they can't rig the next election enough.  

We already know Trump minions are locked in.  My FB feed was filled with middle fingers, memes and "Trump is you President" posts from them yesterday because they thought the vote was yesterday. 

[HarleyDog]

(02-01-2020, 12:39 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There is one word in here that I want to highlight; respect.

I respect the outcome of the election. However, I don’t respect Trump as a man. I don’t respect the job he has done as president. He has accomplished some good, but overall he has done more harm than good. For instance, he is killing farmers with his tariffs. It’s bad. It makes me concerned there could be a tipping point where the farming industry reaches a tipping point from which they can’t recover and we lose our agricultural jobs to overseas competitors the same as manufacturing.  Just one example.

I was/am against impeachment because I knew the Senate wouldn’t remove Trump. I thought the Democrats would be better served focusing on a platform to help people. If you can help people they will vote for you. If they vote for you, you can remove Trump from office during the next election. But, so far I’m not real happy with the field of potential candidates I may have to choose from when the time comes.

The other aspect of respect I wanted to mention is respect for the other side of the political aisle. I don’t remember the specifics of Hillary’s deplorable comment, but she shouldn’t have said it. It divides people rather than unifies them. I get the impression from reading your posts you feel disrespected. I think that disrespect reinforces what you already believe and maybe makes you less open minded to new information/ideas/opinions. I think the same applies to me. Trump doesn’t respect veterans except for his own self interest which makes me dislike him even more.

I just wanted to tell you I respect your opinions. I disagree on many things. But, I know we both want what’s best for this country. I think we probably agree on more things than we disagree on. I just don’t think we are going to change other people’s minds if we keep going on about it as we have recently. I don’t me you and me specially. I mean us as a country. Social media is filled with foreign propaganda. We don’t know when to trust the media because we’ve gone out of our way to slander and discredit the media. The politicians care more about holding on to office rather than accomplishing anything of substance while in office. I just don’t know how to go about fixing this.

This is probably the best post in this entire thread.  

[Dill]

(01-27-2020, 08:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see your point, and would like to counter with "What aid did they not receive?"  As far as I understand, the "pause" of the aid was withdrawn, and the Ukrainians received their aid, prior to the predetermined date.  So, "Where's the beef?"

I missed this last week, Sunset.  I do want to answer it, though.

Two points:

1. Remember that the aid was for ongoing combat in Eastern Ukraine. "Pauses" in that kind of aid can cost lives.  Not to mention it is extremely unethical do do something like just to get dirt on a political opponent.

2. So far as the criminality of Trump's actions, they do not turn on whether Ukraine got the aid, but on whether Trump withheld it for private, partisan purposes which also conflicted with US policy goals in Eastern Europe. 

That means that even if Ukraine eventually gets the aid, Trump still broke the law when he held up the aid. 

Analogy: Imagine that you are in a car accident which puts you in the hospital where you can't work and your insurance doesn't cover everything. Some of your creditors demand IMMEDIATE payment, and your bank grants you a loan to cover pressing expenses.

But the officer supposed to disperse it withholds the money until you do him a very unethical "favor": he wants you to publicly lodge a false complaint about a co worker with whom he is competing for a promotion. You do not respond right away, however, and because the loan was withheld, your medical expenses were not paid in timely fashion and turned over to a collection agency, dropping your credit rating. 

When a whistleblower in the bank discovers this use of bank money for private and illegal leverage, the officer releases your money immediately, complaining loudly that the whistleblower hates him and is likely a secretary of his competitor.  If you were that bank's CEO, would your view be "Sunny got his loan, so where's the beef?"  Would you promote the unethical loan officer?  If that unethical officer wanted the name of the whistleblower, would you give it to him, or would you stay focused on the real problem--you've got an unethical loan officer in charge of bank money?  

[BmorePat87]

Lisa Murkowski said “The president's behavior was shameful and wrong. His personal interests do not take precedence over those of this great nation,"


And then said she cannot vote to convict lol

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-03-2020, 09:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Lisa Murkowski said “The president's behavior was shameful and wrong. His personal interests do not take precedence over those of this great nation,"


And then said she cannot vote to convict lol

We knew this would happen. It’s like god getting pissed at Adan and Eve for eating the apple even though he knew they would.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-03-2020, 09:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Lisa Murkowski said “The president's behavior was shameful and wrong. His personal interests do not take precedence over those of this great nation,"


And then said she cannot vote to convict lol

And apparently the democratic party forgot how to count today.


I have been b!tching for awhile now about the broke ass two party system...

These two absolutely crooked parties in power basically punch me in the face every day. Then throw poop on me when I'm down.

[Belsnickel]

Manchin has prepared a resolution and is calling on the Senate to censure Trump. We all know acquittal is coming; that was a certainty from the start. What this does, however, is puts a ton of pressure on those GOP Senators that went with the "what he did was wrong, but does not rise to the level for him to be removed from office" line.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-04-2020, 03:04 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: And apparently the democratic party forgot how to count today.


I have been b!tching for awhile now about the broke ass two party system...

These two absolutely crooked parties in power basically punch me in the face every day. Then throw poop on me when I'm down.

Knowing full well I risk Matt lecturing on the beauty of caucuses and that's what a real democracy looks like, the way that state does it is effed up.  

[*michaelsean*]

(02-04-2020, 09:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Manchin has prepared a resolution and is calling on the Senate to censure Trump. We all know acquittal is coming; that was a certainty from the start. What this does, however, is puts a ton of pressure on those GOP Senators that went with the "what he did was wrong, but does not rise to the level for him to be removed from office" line.

I think that would be a nice out for them.

Although we are   certain how the vote will come out, it's weird to think that Trump is in fact a vote away from being immediately removed from office.

[GMDino]

They won't vote to censor.  They are cowards.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-04-2020, 10:14 AM)GMDino Wrote: They won't vote to censor.  They are cowards.

I don't think upholding the 1st amendment is cowardly at all.  

[Belsnickel]

(02-04-2020, 10:11 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Knowing full well I risk Matt lecturing on the beauty of caucuses and that's what a real democracy looks like, the way that state does it is effed up.  

Nah. **** caucuses.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-04-2020, 10:20 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Nah. **** caucuses.

Man I was certain caucuses were something you'd love.  They confuse the hell out of me, that's for sure.

[Belsnickel]

(02-04-2020, 10:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I think that would be a nice out for them.

It would be an interesting vote to see. It would force a large number of Republicans to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Even a censure vote can cause GOP Senators to face backlash from their base or provide their opponents with a powerful talking point depending on how they vote.

[Belsnickel]

(02-04-2020, 10:25 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Man I was certain caucuses were something you'd love.  They confuse the hell out of me, that's for sure.

Nope. Caucuses are undemocratic. They create barriers to voting that are archaic and unnecessary.

[GMDino]

(02-04-2020, 10:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't think upholding the 1st amendment is cowardly at all.  

I mean cowards in the sense that they won't "stand" for anything they will find a way to spin away from it rather than show any spine.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-04-2020, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: I mean cowards in the sense that they won't "stand" for anything they will find a way to spin away from it rather than show any spine.

I added a bold to my post.  Does that help? 

[GMDino]

(02-04-2020, 10:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I added a bold to my post.  Does that help? 

 

Got it now.  Cold medicine fogged me...lol.

They still won't vote to censure. They are the political equivalent of a guy telling his friend to "hold him back" so he doesn't fight the bigger guy.

[Stonyhands]

(02-03-2020, 09:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Lisa Murkowski said “The president's behavior was shameful and wrong. His personal interests do not take precedence over those of this great nation,"


And then said she cannot vote to convict lol

Take what she says and does with a grain of salt. Very likely this is her last term because myself and fellow Alaskans are done with her and her flip flopping antics. Nothing she ever does make any damn sense.