2020 Presidential Election

[GMDino]

(04-30-2020, 05:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They absolutely were, but Trump has famously refused to release his tax returns and McConnell forced Kavanaugh's nomination hearing forward without releasing documents that would normally be reviewed, with many Bush era documents only being released the day before the hearings even started. 

McConnell was okay with neither of those being an "open book". 

I mean Kavanaugh was only being placed in a lifetime job why should we hold him to a higher standard than Biden who has only been in office for a few decades and vetted to be Vice President?!?! 

[BmorePat87]

(04-30-2020, 05:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean Kavanaugh was only being placed in a lifetime job why should we hold him to a higher standard than Biden who has only been in office for a few decades and vetted to be Vice President?!?! 

McConnell has absolutely done far more damage to our democracy than any other person in the last 40 years. Obviously having an unqualified egomaniac in the White House can do a lot of damage to our democratic institutions, but McConnell could have placed a lot of checks on Trump and instead allowed it to happen. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 05:26 PM)hollodero Wrote: Sure they were, but McConnell did not quite insist the had to "participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations"

Where in Pat's post did McConnell say Biden "had" to participate or "insist" he do?

[BigPapaKain]

This election is going to a god damn train wreck.

I'm tired of voting for damned if you do or damned if you don't; can we get an actual deserving person to run (not Bernie)?

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 07:37 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: This election is going to a god damn train wreck.

I'm tired of voting for damned if you do or damned if you don't; can we get an actual deserving person to run (not Bernie)?

Well the Right is stuck with Trump and the Left went 3 directions. Far-far Left, minority, or Moderate establishment. They've done it the last 2 election cycles

A young, moderate, Dem didn't have a chance. When the cycle first started I wanted Seth Moulton. He announced and lasted about 1 month. At the end of the day, the Left is exactly what they claim to be against. Old, white, establishment. The only difference is one had a innie and one had an outiie. 

No idea who I'll vote for. Look forward to the debates but my prediction is Trump will destroy Biden during them. 

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where in Pat's post did McConnell say Biden "had" to participate or "insist" he do?

What do you mean? " I can't imagine that Vice President Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations." I copied it right out there. It's within the first sentence.

While he could imagine quite well that Trump or Kavanaugh - but especially Trump - don't need to participate in releasing all the information.

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 08:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: What do you mean? " I can't imagine that Vice President Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations." I copied it right out there. It's within the first sentence.

While he could imagine quite well that Trump or Kavanaugh - but especially Trump - don't need to participate in releasing all the information.

Yeah, I read that and still didn't see where where McConnell demanded he do anything. He didn't even use the new word "need" that you just added.

Perhaps we can find common ground by asking this simple question:

Do you think Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations? 

If you answer yes, then you are demanding he do, if you answer no, then you do not understand American politics. 

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the Right is stuck with Trump and the Left went 3 directions. Far-far Left, minority, or Moderate establishment. They've done it the last 2 years.

A young, moderate, Dem didn't have a chance. When the cycle first started I wanted Seth Moulton. He announced and lasted about 1 month. At the end of the day, the Left is exactly what they claim to be against. Old, white, establishment. The only difference is one had a innie and one had an outiie. 

No idea who I'll vote for. Look forward to the debates but my prediction is Trump will destroy Biden during them. 

Isn't Biden just as moderate a candidate as you could have possibly wished for?

Also on a sidenote, I feel this whole "the left is against old white etc."-stances are a bit overblown to begin with.

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 08:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: Isn't Biden just as moderate a candidate as you could have possibly wished for?

Also on a sidenote, I feel this whole "the left is against old white etc."-stances are a bit overblown to begin with.

He is but as I said he is moderate establishment. He comes with baggage. Folks can think he had nothing to do with his son getting the energy gig in Ukraine, but let's be real. He's also go a former aid using words such as "rape". 

I further mentioned I haven't decided who I'll vote for but I can tell you this: If Warren or Sanders would have won. I could tell you today who I'm not voting for. 

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 08:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I read that and still didn't see where where McConnell demanded he do anything. He didn't even use the new word "need" that you just added.

Yeah I replaced "have to" with "need to". I mean... sure. It changes a ton.

You do get that my point is how hypocritical McConnell's stances are, right? He never said anything like that when it came to Trump et al.

(04-30-2020, 08:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you think Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations? 

If you answer yes, then you are demanding he do, if you answer no, then you do not understand American politics. 

I don't know if he has to? Has he? Hasn't Trump, or Kavanaugh or say McConnell himself, set a whole new standard regarding such participations?

Sure I'd say everyone should be obliged to do so, in an ideal world this isn't a question. But I can see the point of those that see a double standard here.

[*michaelsean*]

(04-30-2020, 07:37 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: This election is going to a god damn train wreck.

I'm tired of voting for damned if you do or damned if you don't; can we get an actual deserving person to run (not Bernie)?

I have voted libertarian a couple times in the hope they get a high enough percentage to get in debates. Needless to say that it was a bit disheartening when two unpopular candidates ran and there was no bump in any third party.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-30-2020, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the Right is stuck with Trump and the Left went 3 directions. Far-far Left, minority, or Moderate establishment. They've done it the last 2 election cycles

A young, moderate, Dem didn't have a chance. When the cycle first started I wanted Seth Moulton. He announced and lasted about 1 month. At the end of the day, the Left is exactly what they claim to be against. Old, white, establishment. The only difference is one had a innie and one had an outiie. 

No idea who I'll vote for. Look forward to the debates but my prediction is Trump will destroy Biden during them. 

I don't think the debates are gonna sway as many people as you're thinking.

I know a lot of Trump supporters that have all but abandoned him, and most middle of the road voters are sick of his nonsense. He still has his hardcore supporters who are gonna vote for him even as they're being bombed out when the rest of the world gets sick of his shit.

And if this Coronavirus BS keeps up into November and they do mail in voting, all the gerrymandering the Republicans have been doing for 40 years ain't gonna make a lick of difference.

Now I realize a lot of that sounds like I'm pro Biden. I'm not. Dude freaks me out. But the prospect of Trump for another 4 years gives me literal anxiety. Actually, Trump losing the election gives me anxiety because he's the right kind of deranged to do something incredibly stupid between November and January.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-30-2020, 08:33 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I have voted libertarian a couple times in the hope they get a high enough percentage to get in debates.  Needless to say that it was a bit disheartening when two unpopular candidates ran and there was no bump in any third party.

I have to imagine all those 3rd party voters are just hell bent on getting Trump to go home (at least as far as my limited scope can see).

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 08:31 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I replaced "have to" with "need to". I mean... sure. It changes a ton.

You do get that my point is how hypocritical McConnell's stances are, right? He never said anything like that when it came to Trump et al.



I don't know if he has to? Has he? Hasn't Trump, or Kavanaugh or say McConnell himself, set a whole new standard regarding such participations?

Sure I'd say everyone should be obliged to do so, in an ideal world this isn't a question. But I can see the point of those that see a double standard here.

"I don't know" is an easy out.

Guess my issue was folks changing what Mitch said, no one has ever said Mitch is not a hypocrite; he's a politician after all. I just didn't see the demand in Mitch's comments provided that have been asserted in this forum.

Unfortunately, Pat did not provide a link to his quotes, but I would be surprised if it were not in response to the coverage/ comments of those that once found Kavs guilty because of mere accusations. 

Do you think Pelosci or Schumer will demand the same accountability for Biden than they did for Kavs/Trump? Hell Hills already showed her hypocrisy by endorsing Biden during a "women's forum". Seems she was a little more aghast about the claims against Kavs/Trump.

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 08:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He is but as I said he is moderate establishment. He comes with baggage. Folks can think he had nothing to do with his son getting the energy gig in Ukraine, but let's be real. He's also go a former aid using words such as "rape". 

I really don't know if he was involved in getting Hunter a job. I can imagine quite well Burisma wanted a Biden for optics and needed no encouragement from Joe to want that. I sure do admit that I used the same "let's be real" argument regarding Trump and his shady dealings. So ok. I can see how it's some kind of red flag. Same goes for the rape accusations... which are, just as in the case of Trump, unproven though. (And I do not go after Trump on those.)

And also let's be real, Trump attacking Biden on the merits of nepotism is just as pointless as Biden attacking Trump for draft dodging. I can clearly understand why it bothers you though. It's quite legit.

Then again... the other guy's Trump. An option one can also be real about.

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: "I don't know" is an easy out.

Guess my issue was folks changing what Mitch said, no one has ever said Mitch is not a hypocrite; he's a politician after all. I just didn't see the demand in Mitch's comments provided that have been asserted in this forum.

Unfortunately, Pat did not provide a link to his quotes, but I would be surprised if it were not in response to the coverage/ comments of those that once found Kavs guilty because of mere accusations. 

Do you think Pelosci or Schumer will demand the same accountability for Biden than they did for Kavs/Trump? Hell Hills already showed her hypocrisy by endorsing Biden during a "women's forum". Seems she was a little more aghast about the claims against Kavs/Trump.

Hillary is not... I mean, yeah, she's something else. Other democrats, I don't know. They did expel Franken, after all.

As for the rest, I did not intend to make it easy on myself. I really don't know, I mean Biden should need to/have to cooperate, but what could one say if he doesn't want to and points to precedence? Be better than your opponent? And lose to him over it? I have no easy answer to offer here. Given cooperating will probably be damaging for him, innocent or not.

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 08:34 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Now I realize a lot of that sounds like I'm pro Biden. I'm not. Dude freaks me out.

Can I ask why?

[CKwi88]

(04-30-2020, 08:55 PM)hollodero Wrote: Can I ask why?

Not intending to answer for BPK or anything, but have you seen the guy? He oozes "creepy old white dude". 

To his credit he hasn't (to my knowledge) publicly mused about dating his daughter, so at least he has that going for him. 

[BigPapaKain]

(04-30-2020, 08:55 PM)hollodero Wrote: Can I ask why?

I don't know. Sexual assault allegations don't sit well with me as it is, but the entirety of his person just bothers me. Gut feeling, I suppose.

[BmorePat87]

(04-30-2020, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: .

Unfortunately, Pat did not provide a link to his quotes, but I would be surprised if it were not in response to the coverage/ comments of those that once found Kavs guilty because of mere accusations. 

https://www.axios.com/mcconnell-biden-sexual-assault-allegation-631f8ace-cc5b-4ebd-9fb3-67115b77e6d4.html

Someone on Fox asked McConnell if the University of Delaware with “many of [Biden’s] friends” on board should release Biden’s Senate papers to shed light on the allegations.