(09-11-2020, 08:25 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I am sooooooo sick and tired of repeatedly correcting misinformation which is taken completely out of context and presented in a way to support a narrative apart from reality of what happened and when it happened.
That's not an accident.
So few people will go back to reconstruct the actual when, where and why. They already know the MSM is out to get Trump with their timelines and facts and medical experts.
So who in the Fox audience will call "bullshit" if you loudly proclaim Trump went against WHO and Fauci to save the US while "China Joe" came out against the travel ban?
Trump said NO to the medical experts and now they all agree he was right! Saved a million lives while Joe's America erupted in riots.
(09-11-2020, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Remember, Democrats #1 concern, the thing they care the absolute most above EVERY THING ELSE is getting Trump out of the White House. Who replaces him is not as important; rioting, police brutality, racism, etc are not as important as getting Trump out of the White House.
Sure. That's what I care about.
But that's because I care about the rioting, police brutality, racism, etc. Little can be done about that while he is in office blocking reform and fomenting a cultural civil war.
I also think the president should be a person of good character who thinks there is a greater good than himself, a role model for youth who understands the gravity of the office, is respected internationally, picks wise counselors and listens to them, and can unite the country by stepping up to lead in times of national crisis. I'm guessing that you would honor these qualities as well, Philhos.
He should also know something of world history--especially the history of US foreign policy--international law, how the government actually works, and respect and honor the sacrifices for the nation made by military members and their families.
He should not collude with a cable news channel to advance conspiracy theories and smear opponents, and to generate public support for his abuses of power--the firing of whistle blowers, the corruption of government departments like the DOJ, Post office, and DHS to protect his re-election interests. Defenses of Trump degrade standards of public behavior and discourse--political, scientific, and civil.
I would have opposed any of Trump's Republican primary opponents--on the issues. But none of them would fall under the above objections. That the election is as close as it is points to a problem larger than Trump, which will continue after he is gone. But it will be worse after another four years of him.
So yes, Trump out. above EVERYTHING ELSE. As the never Trumpers say--nation before party.
(09-13-2020, 01:33 PM)Dill Wrote: Sure. That's what I care about.
But that's because I care about the rioting, police brutality, racism, etc. Little can be done about that while he is in office blocking reform and fomenting a cultural civil war.
I also think the president should be a person of good character who thinks there is a greater good than himself, a role model for youth who understands the gravity of the office, is respected internationally, picks wise counselors and listens to them, and can unite the country by stepping up to lead in times of national crisis.
He should also know something of world history--especially the history of US foreign policy--international law, how the government actually works, and respect and honor the sacrifices for the nation made by military members and their families.
He should not collude with a cable news channel to advance conspiracy theories and smear opponents, and to generate public support for his abuses of power--the firing of whistle blowers, the corruption of government departments like the DOJ, Post office, and DHS to protect his re-election interests. Defenses of Trump degrade standards of public behavior and discourse--political, scientific, and civil.
I would have opposed any of Trump's Republican primary opponents--on the issues. But none of them would fall under the above objections. That the election is as close as it is points to a problem larger than Trump, which will continue after he is gone. But it will be worse after another four years of him.
So yes, Trump out. above EVERYTHING ELSE. As the never Trumpers say--nation before party.
As I recall it The Senate brought a reform bill to the floor and the Dems wouldn't even discuss it.
Trump has made mistakes throughout this pandemic, but he doesn't hold a monopoly. The law Makers of the country are just pointing fingers while doing nothing except getting their hair did and calling people killers.
As to the riots I'm not sure what else you want him to do. He's offered federal assistance to any city that wants it.l
He backed off in Portland so the riots would stop. How'd that work out?
But as you say. Folks will create their own reality
(09-13-2020, 01:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I recall it The Senate brought a reform bill to the floor and the Dems wouldn't even discuss it.
Trump has made mistakes throughout this pandemic, but he doesn't hold a monopoly. The law Makers of the country are just pointing fingers while doing nothing except getting their hair did and calling people killers.
As to the riots I'm not sure what else you want him to do. He's offered federal assistance to any city that wants it.l
He backed off in Portland so the riots would stop. How'd that work out?
But as you say. Folks will create their own reality
Yes, and you are demonstrating how they do it, via superficial "equivalence" of Dem and Trump behavior.
Trump doesn't hold a "monopoly" on mistakes?--Like all mistakes were equal, by people equally empowered and equally willing to rectify them.
Dems wouldn't discuss a reform bill? --the same Dems who support police reform and introduced the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act? But now they won't support a Repub bill that won't mandate body cams and ban chokeholds?
Trump offered assistance and "backed off" in Portland? --Trump sent unmarked Federal agents on an arrest spree, and backed off because of the lawsuits? This has what to do with reform?
All your are points abstracted from any context. None meets my objection that Trump would block police reform while in office, the part of my post you are supposedly responding to, while ignoring the horrendous record referred to in the rest. All ignore how he foments unrest, warning his white base that "They" will invade the suburbs, that he will back the police and use them and the US military to "dominate the streets."
This is the president whose DOJ "removed the handcuffs" from police and neutralized all existing Consent Decrees. As I say, little can be done while he is in office blocking reform.
But to judge his actions in relation to reform you have to know at least SOMETHING about the history of police reform before Trump along with his specific history of non support. No one with a modicum of that knowledge would be wondering what else Trump could be asked to do.
(09-13-2020, 02:55 PM)Dill Wrote: Dems wouldn't discuss a reform bill? --the same Dems who support police reform and introduced the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act? But now they won't support a Repub bill that won't mandate body cams and ban chokeholds?
GOP bill only looked at data collection and training and didn't touch on outlets to hold law enforcement legally accountable. They also wouldn't touch a federal chokehold ban.
GOP made it clear they wouldn't budge and meet halfway on the House bill. Schumer called for talks when they blocked the bill rather than just voting on a unilateral GOP bill. The GOP didn't even allow committee markups. They pushed their bill straight to the floor without any amendments or changes.
If you refuse to even discuss mark ups in committee, you have no intention of compromise. You're just trying to say "hey, we offered a bill and they said no".
(09-13-2020, 03:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: GOP bill only looked at data collection and training and didn't touch on outlets to hold law enforcement legally accountable. They also wouldn't touch a federal chokehold ban.
GOP made it clear they wouldn't budge and meet halfway on the House bill. Schumer called for talks when they blocked the bill rather than just voting on a unilateral GOP bill. The GOP didn't even allow committee markups. They pushed their bill straight to the floor without any amendments or changes.
If you refuse to even discuss mark ups in committee, you have no intention of compromise. You're just trying to say "hey, we offered a bill and they said no".
LOL, and if you are addressing people who don't follow the police reform history, plus the Dem House bill, you can go a step further and accuse the Dems of "obstructing" reform.
Fox/Trump count on people only comparing the titles of internet news articles. "Dems block Senate Reform Bill!" --but say they are for reform??
(09-13-2020, 04:26 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL, and if you are addressing people who don't follow the police reform history, plus the Dem House bill, you can go a step further and accuse the Dems of "obstructing" reform.
Fox/Trump count on people only comparing the titles of internet news articles. "Dems block Senate Reform Bill!" --but say they are for reform??
And they are largely rewarded.
McConnell ignored the House bill for 60 days and did not offer his own bill, threw together garbage at the last minute, did not get involved in negotiations, and then blamed Democrats for not wanting to help families.
(09-13-2020, 03:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: GOP bill only looked at data collection and training and didn't touch on outlets to hold law enforcement legally accountable. They also wouldn't touch a federal chokehold ban.
GOP made it clear they wouldn't budge and meet halfway on the House bill. Schumer called for talks when they blocked the bill rather than just voting on a unilateral GOP bill. The GOP didn't even allow committee markups. They pushed their bill straight to the floor without any amendments or changes.
If you refuse to even discuss mark ups in committee, you have no intention of compromise. You're just trying to say "hey, we offered a bill and they said no".
Seems to me like ignoring all this context would be "[f]olks creating their own reality."
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(09-13-2020, 07:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Just an edit, I was referring to the Covid bill in my 2nd post as another example of what Dill was describing.
Gotcha. Fixed it.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(09-13-2020, 03:27 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: GOP bill only looked at data collection and training and didn't touch on outlets to hold law enforcement legally accountable. They also wouldn't touch a federal chokehold ban.
GOP made it clear they wouldn't budge and meet halfway on the House bill. Schumer called for talks when they blocked the bill rather than just voting on a unilateral GOP bill. The GOP didn't even allow committee markups. They pushed their bill straight to the floor without any amendments or changes.
If you refuse to even discuss mark ups in committee, you have no intention of compromise. You're just trying to say "hey, we offered a bill and they said no".
The GOP put no limit on the amendments the Dems could introduce into the Bill, but the Dems refused to even allow it on the floor.
(09-13-2020, 01:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I recall it The Senate brought a reform bill to the floor and the Dems wouldn't even discuss it.
Trump has made mistakes throughout this pandemic, but he doesn't hold a monopoly. The law Makers of the country are just pointing fingers while doing nothing except getting their hair did and calling people killers.
As to the riots I'm not sure what else you want him to do. He's offered federal assistance to any city that wants it.l
He backed off in Portland so the riots would stop. How'd that work out?
But as you say. Folks will create their own reality
(09-13-2020, 02:55 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes, and you are demonstrating how they do it, via superficial "equivalence" of Dem and Trump behavior.
Trump doesn't hold a "monopoly" on mistakes?--Like all mistakes were equal, by people equally empowered and equally willing to rectify them.
Dems wouldn't discuss a reform bill? --the same Dems who support police reform and introduced the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act? But now they won't support a Repub bill that won't mandate body cams and ban chokeholds?
Trump offered assistance and "backed off" in Portland? --Trump sent unmarked Federal agents on an arrest spree, and backed off because of the lawsuits? This has what to do with reform?
All your are points abstracted from any context. None meets my objection that Trump would block police reform while in office, the part of my post you are supposedly responding to, while ignoring the horrendous record referred to in the rest. All ignore how he foments unrest, warning his white base that "They" will invade the suburbs, that he will back the police and use them and the US military to "dominate the streets."
This is the president whose DOJ "removed the handcuffs" from police and neutralized all existing Consent Decrees. As I say, little can be done while he is in office blocking reform.
But to judge his actions in relation to reform you have to know at least SOMETHING about the history of police reform before Trump along with his specific history of non support. No one with a modicum of that knowledge would be wondering what else Trump could be asked to do.
Roger Stone called on Trump to take a number of authoritarian actions to ensure that he wins the election.
Quote:Stone argued that “the ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshalls and taken from the state” because “they are completely corrupted” and falsely said that “we can prove voter fraud in the absentees right now.” He specifically called for Trump to have absentee ballots seized in Clark County, Nevada, an area that leans Democratic. Stone went on to claim that “the votes from Nevada should not be counted; they are already flooded with illegals” and baselessly suggested that former Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) should be arrested and that Trump should consider nationalizing Nevada’s state police force.
Stone recommended that Trump consider several actions to retain his power. Stone recommended that Trump appoint former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA) as a special counsel “with the specific task of forming an Election Day operation using the FBI, federal marshals, and Republican state officials across the country to be prepared to file legal objections and if necessary to physically stand in the way of criminal activity.” Stone also urged Trump to consider declaring “martial law” or invoking the Insurrection Act and then using his powers to arrest Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Apple CEO Tim Cook, “the Clintons” and “anybody else who can be proven to be involved in illegal activity.”
(09-14-2020, 09:02 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Re-education camp, which is where Trump wants to send your children (in his own words).
The accommodations are furnished by Homeland Security but the education will be all Betsy Devos, so at least the re-education part will be a total failure.
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Never in history have people had such a cult-like obsession with an AMERICAN President or candidate that they flew a flag with his or her name, gave them parades, or wore hats with their name. This didn't happen for Obama or Reagan, nor FDR, JFK, or Teddy or Eisenhower. Nobody. Sure, there are sometimes a few campaign T-shirts and bumper stickers or the like floating around but nothing like the "Red hat club" and Trump flags. There are Trump merchandise stores set up everywhere, including in Milford. There are literally hundreds of Trump flags on docks on Okoboji and people drive by in boats with one, two,or even three Trump flags. It's one thing to support your candidate but it's super odd to be so obsessed. I'm honestly not sure if it's a cult-like obsession, an attempt to "troll" Trump haters, or a combination but it SUPER seems strange to be so fanatical in your support or trolling.
Deceitful, two-faced she-woman. Never trust a female, Delmar, remember that one simple precept and your time with me will not have been ill spent.
(09-14-2020, 01:08 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Never in history have people had such a cult-like obsession with an AMERICAN President or candidate that they flew a flag with his or her name, gave them parades, or wore hats with their name. This didn't happen for Obama or Reagan, nor FDR, JFK, or Teddy or Eisenhower. Nobody. Sure, there are sometimes a few campaign T-shirts and bumper stickers or the like floating around but nothing like the "Red hat club" and Trump flags. There are Trump merchandise stores set up everywhere, including in Milford. There are literally hundreds of Trump flags on docks on Okoboji and people drive by in boats with one, two,or even three Trump flags. It's one thing to support your candidate but it's super odd to be so obsessed. I'm honestly not sure if it's a cult-like obsession, an attempt to "troll" Trump haters, or a combination but it SUPER seems strange to be so fanatical in your support or trolling.
I left a Buttigieg group on facebook because it got too weirdly fanatic, but even that was like a fraction of what we see with MAGA.
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