No Need for a #1 WR

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-27-2020, 07:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If every QB had an extra second of time they'd be dangerous. You'd be surprised how much time a second is for a QB and how much of an unreasonable ask it is.


https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/62v6jk/quarterbacks_time_to_throw_in_relation_to/

Couple years old, but it gives you a good idea. The vast majority of QBs are in the 2.50-2.90 range for time to throw.  Tyrod Taylor is an anomaly there because he had great ability to escape and extend the play.


Even then there's not a second difference between the fastest and the slowest. 


I don't know the numbers of what Burrow has had this year for TTT but you'll note on that list that Drew Brees is the 2nd fastest (2.43s), Jared Goff was 8th (2.50s), Tom Brady was 12th (2.57s). The difference between Brees at 2nd and Brady at 12th? 0.13s ... that's it.


So yes, Burrow needs a little more time to throw, but we're honestly talking ~0.10-0.20 seconds more. That's all. The rest is getting Burrow to make good pre-snap reads and making quick decisions once the ball is in his hand before getting rid of it quickly. Stuff that'll come with him getting experience and no longer being a rookie. (A better schemed offense wouldn't hurt either.)

Where does Andy Dalton fall in there? 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 07:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Where does Andy Dalton fall in there? 

Of course you're trying to get me in trouble. Lol

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 07:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Teams can always find decent veteran WRs in FA who will play for cheap and able to contribute 500+ yards.
Burrow likes to spread the ball around, so a guy like that should be fine to get.

Use AJ Green's money on OL...which they should have done this past offseason.

I mean... does he, though? I've seen it said recently and I am not sure where the idea came from.

Last year he threw 84 catches and 1,780 yards to one WR, 111 catches and 1,540 yards to another WR, and nobody else had even 60 catches or 700 yards.

That sounds like the exact opposite of liking to spread it around. That sounds like he likes having two of the best WRs in the country to heavily feed the ball to. Heck, the only other person who had more than 47 catches besides those 2 WRs was the RB.

[QueenCity]

(09-27-2020, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean... does he, though? I've seen it said recently and I am not sure where the idea came from.

Last year he threw 84 catches and 1,780 yards to one WR, 111 catches and 1,540 yards to another WR, and nobody else had even 60 catches or 700 yards.

That sounds like the exact opposite of liking to spread it around. That sounds like he likes having two of the best WRs in the country to heavily feed the ball to. Heck, the only other person who had more than 47 catches besides those 2 WRs was the RB.

Terrance Marshall JR.  his #3 WR had 13 TD's + 46 receptions

Thad Moss his TE had 4 TD's 47 Receptions 

Clyde Edwards-Helaire 55 Receptions

Personally I feel like that is pretty spread out over the course of a college season? What would you of expected...... he literally had the GOAT college season of all time. There is a perfect balance in those numbers. Cmon MAN!!!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean... does he, though? I've seen it said recently and I am not sure where the idea came from.

Last year he threw 84 catches and 1,780 yards to one WR, 111 catches and 1,540 yards to another WR, and nobody else had even 60 catches or 700 yards.

That sounds like the exact opposite of liking to spread it around. That sounds like he likes having two of the best WRs in the country to heavily feed the ball to. Heck, the only other person who had more than 47 catches besides those 2 WRs was the RB.

His mediocre TE had 47 receptions...

You’re really working hard to not be impressed with this kid...

[*ochocincos*]

(09-27-2020, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean... does he, though? I've seen it said recently and I am not sure where the idea came from.

Last year he threw 84 catches and 1,780 yards to one WR, 111 catches and 1,540 yards to another WR, and nobody else had even 60 catches or 700 yards.

That sounds like the exact opposite of liking to spread it around. That sounds like he likes having two of the best WRs in the country to heavily feed the ball to. Heck, the only other person who had more than 47 catches besides those 2 WRs was the RB.

Yes, he does.
You are putting the stats of Chase and Jefferson, obviously. They were the two biggest contributors. They total 3320 yards.
What about the rest of Burrow's 2351 yards?
They were primarily spread across CEH, Moss, and Marshall.
That's a full set of weapons (5) with 46+ receptions and 450+ yards.

To me, that's spreading the ball around.

When looking at Burrow's first 3 NFL games, we see something similar.
Receptions - yards:
Boyd - 23 rec, 230 yards
Green - 13 rec, 116 yards
RB (Bernard + Mixon) - 19 rec, 156 yards
TE (Uzomah + Sample) - 17 rec , 140 yards
Higgins - 8 rec, 75 yards
Thomas - 8 rec, 57 yards
Tate + Ross - 4 rec, 46 yards
(Combined WR3+WR4 = 20 rec, 178 yards)

Does that not look rather spread around? It does to me. Obviously, it's favoring Boyd, but I see a pretty good distribution.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(09-27-2020, 07:10 PM)QueenCity Wrote: As the subject simply states... Burrow does not need a WR 1 to be successful. Yes only a 3 game sample size but he has barely used AJ Green or couldn't for that matter. This is a good thing fellas ala Tom Brady. We can allocate the $$$ to other positions.

Bengals would be wise to move on from AJ either through trade or not resigning him.

Thoughts agree or disagree?

He has used AJ Green - to create mismatches. Darius Slay matched up with AJ Green leaving Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins to feast.

Now how long teams will continue to keep their no.1 CBs on AJ is open to debate.

Maybe the question should be is there need for a #1 RB?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 08:22 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Terrance Marshall JR.  his #3 WR had 13 TD's + 46 receptions

Thad Moss his TE had 4 TD's 47 Receptions 

Clyde Edwards-Helaire 55 Receptions

Personally I feel like that is pretty spread out over the course of a college season? What would you of expected...... he literally had the GOAT college season of all time. There is a perfect balance in those numbers. Cmon MAN!!!

When you're dealing with video game numbers like Burrow's 2019, then you need to look at % rather than raw numbers since that's actually showing how spread it as by portion of the whole. For the #1 RB I am using the leading receiving RB as the whole point of this post is passing numbers.

Burrow's #1 WR: 19.7% of the receptions ... 29.5% of the yards
Burrow's #2 WR: 26.1% of the receptions ... 25.6% of the yards
Burrow's #3 WR: 10.8% of the receptions ... 11.1% of the yards
Burrow's #1 TE: 11.0% of the receptions ... 9.5% of the yards
Burrow's #1 RB: 12.9% of the receptions ... 7.5% of the yards

Now for some comparison I will use McCarron/Dalton's 2015 season.

McDalton's #1 WR: 25.7% of the receptions ... 31.6% of the yards
McDalton's #2 WR: 19.5% of the receptions ... 19.1% of the yards
McDalton's #3 WR: 9.9% of the receptions ... 9.6% of the yards
McDalton's #1 TE: 15.6% of the receptions ... 15.0% of the yards
McDalton's #1 RB: 14.7% of the receptions ... 11.5% of the yards


As you can see, the 2015 team was actually more spread out as far as passing goes. Simply because Burrow's #2 was way way better than anyone else has a right to have as a #2, but instead the Bengals spread it much more to the TE and RB. 

Burrow last year actually threw it pretty heavily to his top 2 targets, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you have two of the best, why wouldn't you? 

But the point is, even the 2015 Bengals who most certainly had a #1 WR, still spread it out more. So I just don't get where the idea that Burrow likes to really spread it out came from. From what I can see, Burrow likes to throw it to his best players (which is a sound strategy). It doesn't mean that suddenly Burrow doesn't need a #1 WR, though.

(09-27-2020, 08:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: His mediocre TE had 47 receptions...

You’re really working hard to not be impressed with this kid...

Look who's back. Don't you have anything better to do than stalk me throughout the board? Some Burrow macaroni art to make and hang on your fridge or something? I didn't even say anything negative about Burrow, so what the **** are you on about now?

He preferred throwing to his 2 primary WRs. That's not even a negative. Seriously, **** off and mind your own business. It's getting tiring that I can't even have a conversation with another person without you showing up with some DB snark.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 08:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, he does.
You are putting the stats of Chase and Jefferson, obviously. They were the two biggest contributors. They total 3320 yards.
What about the rest of Burrow's 2351 yards?
They were primarily spread across CEH, Moss, and Marshall.
That's a full set of weapons (5) with 46+ receptions and 450+ yards.

To me, that's spreading the ball around.

When looking at Burrow's first 3 NFL games, we see something similar.
Receptions - yards:
Boyd - 23 rec, 230 yards
Green - 13 rec, 116 yards
RB (Bernard + Mixon) - 19 rec, 156 yards
TE (Uzomah + Sample) - 17 rec , 140 yards
Higgins - 8 rec, 75 yards
Thomas - 8 rec, 57 yards
Tate + Ross - 4 rec, 46 yards
(Combined WR3+WR4 = 20 rec, 178 yards)

Does that not look rather spread around? It does to me. Obviously, it's favoring Boyd, but I see a pretty good distribution.

Check my reply up above. I hope that explains my thinking/view on it. I was busy making the reply when you quoted me, so I wasn't able to wrap you into it for the notification.

:andy:

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 08:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: When you're dealing with video game numbers like Burrow's 2019, then you need to look at % rather than raw numbers since that's actually showing how spread it as by portion of the whole. For the #1 RB I am using the leading receiving RB as the whole point of this post is passing numbers.

Burrow's #1 WR: 19.7% of the receptions ... 29.5% of the yards
Burrow's #2 WR: 26.1% of the receptions ... 25.6% of the yards
Burrow's #3 WR: 10.8% of the receptions ... 11.1% of the yards
Burrow's #1 TE: 11.0% of the receptions ... 9.5% of the yards
Burrow's #1 RB: 12.9% of the receptions ... 7.5% of the yards

Now for some comparison I will use McCarron/Dalton's 2015 season.

McDalton's #1 WR: 25.7% of the receptions ... 31.6% of the yards
McDalton's #2 WR: 19.5% of the receptions ... 19.1% of the yards
McDalton's #3 WR: 9.9% of the receptions ... 9.6% of the yards
McDalton's #1 TE: 15.6% of the receptions ... 15.0% of the yards
McDalton's #1 RB: 14.7% of the receptions ... 11.5% of the yards


As you can see, the 2015 team was actually more spread out as far as passing goes. Simply because Burrow's #2 was way way better than anyone else has a right to have as a #2, but instead the Bengals spread it much more to the TE and RB. 

Burrow last year actually threw it pretty heavily to his top 2 targets, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you have two of the best, why wouldn't you? 

But the point is, even the 2015 Bengals who most certainly had a #1 WR, still spread it out more. So I just don't get where the idea that Burrow likes to really spread it out came from. From what I can see, Burrow likes to throw it to his best players (which is a sound strategy). It doesn't mean that suddenly Burrow doesn't need a #1 WR, though.




Look who's back. Don't you have anything better to do than stalk me throughout the board? Some Burrow macaroni art to make and hang on your fridge or something? I didn't even say anything negative about Burrow, so what the **** are you on about now?

He preferred throwing to his 2 primary WRs. That's not even a negative. Seriously, **** off and mind your own business. It's getting tiring that I can't even have a conversation with another person without you showing up with some DB snark.

All I did was disagree with your claim he doesn’t spread the ball around, and wonder why you’re working so hard to fabricate things to downplay what he’s done/doing.

This is a message board, you post things and people respond to them. That’s how it works. Maybe try having a civil discussion instead of becoming unhinged at the drop of a hat...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: All I did was disagree with your claim he doesn’t spread the ball around, and wonder why you’re working so hard to fabricate things to downplay what he’s done/doing.

This is a message board, you post things and people respond to them. That’s how it works. Maybe try having a civil discussion instead of becoming unhinged at the drop of a hat...

All you did was follow me to yet another thread to keep on with your can't-do-anything-but-praise-Burrow Crusade.

I'm not fabricating nor downplaying. He statistically from a % standpoint highly favored his top two WRs quite a bit. The fabricating is pushing the idea that he somehow would prefer to spread it around rather than have a good #1 WR. 

I've had a civil discussion before. Then I had it again, and again, and again. Then you keep on following me to seemingly every single thread I go to and won't ever get off my dick about this. Hats don't take 2-3 weeks to drop. You've been with this non-stop bullshit for 2-3 weeks. Enough. Stop. I get it. 

You don't want anyone to ever say anything that's not pure 100% praise for Burrow (even neutral comments like he prefered to throw to his two best WRs is apparently unacceptable) and any former players for this team are banned from ever being mentioned again. You've driven it home for weeks now.

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-27-2020, 07:10 PM)QueenCity Wrote: As the subject simply states... Burrow does not need a WR 1 to be successful. Yes only a 3 game sample size but he has barely used AJ Green or couldn't for that matter.   This is a good thing fellas ala Tom Brady. We can allocate the $$$ to other positions.

Bengals would be wise to move on from AJ either through trade or not resigning him.

Thoughts agree or disagree?

I think I want to see how Green does by the end of year because he has missed most of the last two years.  WTS, I think they are ready to move on from Ross and with Green's age, lack of long-term contract, they will draft 1-2 WR next year within the 1st 5 rounds.  I will be surprised if Green is back next year with the Bengals given the team's needs elsewhere at OL and DL.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 09:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: All you did was follow me to yet another thread to keep on with your can't-do-anything-but-praise-Burrow Crusade.

I'm not fabricating nor downplaying. He statistically from a % standpoint highly favored his top two WRs quite a bit. The fabricating is pushing the idea that he somehow would prefer to spread it around rather than have a good #1 WR. 

I've had a civil discussion before. Then I had it again, and again, and again. Then you keep on following me to seemingly every single thread I go to and won't ever get off my dick about this. Hats don't take 2-3 weeks to drop. You've been with this non-stop bullshit for 2-3 weeks. Enough. Stop. I get it. 

You don't want anyone to ever say anything that's not pure 100% praise for Burrow (even neutral comments like he prefered to throw to his two best WRs is apparently unacceptable) and any former players for this team are banned from ever being mentioned again. You've driven it home for weeks now.

Guy I’m not “following” you. I’m allowed to give my opinions on anything I like as long as I don’t break any rules of the CoC, which I haven’t.

And I’m not the only person that disagreed with you about Burrow spreading the ball around. Several other people did as well. So don’t act like I’m taking an unreasonable or biased stance.

As far as criticizing Burrow? Have at it. If you happen to say something I agree with I’ll be the first to admit it. I haven’t said a word about your constant Mixon bashing the past few weeks, because he’s not really playing all that well. Even though it’s mostly the OL. But it’s not worth fighting over.

But Burrow? Yeah sorry, I’m going to continue to fanboy out when the kid is playing this well while almost being murdered every game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 10:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, and those other people actually were open for a conversation. You came in with:
"You’re really working hard to not be impressed with this kid..."


And:
"...wonder why you’re working so hard to fabricate things to downplay what he’s done/doing."




That's not conversation, that's you being a dismissive dick because my post wasn't actively praising Burrow at all times. I was actually discussing a topic with others and you contributed absolutely nothing other than your continual belief that anyone not actively talking about how Burrow walks on water while discussing him is "fabricating", "downplaying" and "working hard not to be impressed" even though I haven't criticized him at all in this thread.


There's no greater conversation to be had from what you've said. You're not contributing anything to the thread. You're just being a weird stalker. 3 weeks of it is already enough. Stop.

You left out the first part of my post pointing out how Burrow’s TE that went undrafted somehow had 47 receptions.

Convenient that.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Also why the need to resort to personal insults and name calling? It’s childish, and I haven’t once came at you like that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-27-2020, 10:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You left out the first part of my post pointing out how Burrow’s TE that went undrafted somehow had 47 receptions.

Convenient that.

You completely ignored my post showing an in depth analysis of his 2019 distribution of the ball and how he actually didn't heavily spread it out from a % standpoint (which STILL isn't a criticism or anything bad). Those 47 receptions aren't a particularly high % of his completions for a leading TE. But instead decided to make posts complaining about how I am trying to downplay Burrow. 


Maybe because you don't have any desire to actually discuss anything and instead want to just be a stalking troll who has decided anything said about Burrow that isn't immediately distinguishable as praise is somehow attacking him.

Convenient that. Get some help. It's unhealthy to be this obsessed over everything I post on this board.

[QueenCity]

On a lighter note... at least we don't have to watch Dalton target Green in triple coverage every game LOL

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 10:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You completely ignored my post showing an in depth analysis of his 2019 distribution of the ball and how he actually didn't heavily spread it out from a % standpoint (which STILL isn't a criticism or anything bad). Those 47 receptions aren't a particularly high % of his completions for a leading TE. But instead decided to make posts complaining about how I am trying to downplay Burrow. 


Maybe because you don't have any desire to actually discuss anything and instead want to just be a stalking troll who has decided anything said about Burrow that isn't immediately distinguishable as praise is somehow attacking him.

Convenient that. Get some help. It's unhealthy.

How did he compare to other top QB’s wrt spreading the ball around last year? Did Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross not have the majority of Clemson’s yards? It would be more useful to see how he stacked up against other QB’s. And the onus is on you to prove otherwise since you are the one claiming he didn’t really spread it around much, and several others say he did.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2020, 10:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Look it up yourself you lazy bastard, if you want to know last year specifically. It'll be good for you to actually contribute something to the thread rather than just pretend I am attacking Burrow. 

Tell us who hurt you?

[Sled21]

(09-27-2020, 07:10 PM)QueenCity Wrote: As the subject simply states... Burrow does not need a WR 1 to be successful. Yes only a 3 game sample size but he has barely used AJ Green or couldn't for that matter.   This is a good thing fellas ala Tom Brady. We can allocate the $$$ to other positions.

Bengals would be wise to move on from AJ either through trade or not resigning him.

Thoughts agree or disagree?

AJ is still our #1. He doesn't have the number of receptions simply because Burrow is not forcing the ball to him like Dalton did. And, AJ still requires teams put their best corner and often double him, which leaves Boyd, Higgins and crew easier to get open. Don't discount what AJ brings just because he is not getting every ball...