Coronavirus Information...who do you trust?

[*bfine32*]

(10-27-2020, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The travel ban was useless.  It was like closing the gate after the horses were already out.  (and it did not really close the gate at all because it did not really ban travel from China to the United States.)

The virus was already here in the United States and the limited travel ban did NOTHING to prevent the spread of the virus.

Did you answer the question posed or just make something up to answer? 

[GMDino]

(10-27-2020, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: **Check on Point of View"**

Did Biden call Trump's early travel ban to China Xenophobic? 

(10-27-2020, 12:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, he did not. The Democrats HAD politicized COVID. They called Trump's travel ban xenophobic (whether it was effective is a valid criticism, claiming he was racist for doing so, not so much); Pelosi and Shumer invited everyone to come down to Chinatown to show they weren't racist. They were certainly critical of Donald Trump (ie. calling travel ban xenophobic) at a time when only 6 people in America had died from COVID. 

So, no, everything he said was NOT a "huge lie". 

(10-27-2020, 12:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But that's not how the Democrats categorized the travel ban, is it? The point was the Dems called it xenophobic in just one of their many attempts to call Trump a racist. 

(10-27-2020, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did you answer the question posed or just make something up to answer? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/10/22/trump-touts-his-coronavirus-china-ban-to-bash-biden-and-fauci-heres-why-thats-a-problem/#162bff8925b2

Quote:President Trump regularly touts his so-called “China ban” on travel as a huge success in curbing the virus—and claims rival Joe Biden and favorite foil Dr. Anthony Fauci both were against it—but it wasn’t really an outright ban on travel from China, Biden’s comments were unclear, and Fauci possibly suggested the travel restrictions in the first place.



KEY FACTS
On January 24, before the danger Covid-19 posed was understood, Fauci did say he and Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield told senators they believed travel restrictions were “not a good idea at this time” because it would “create a lot of disruption economically and otherwise and it wouldn’t necessarily have a positive effect.”

On January 31, when Trump announced the China restrictions, Fauci said he supported the move during a White House briefing (Fauci reiterated his support three days later during an interview).

Also on January 31, Biden made an Iowa stump speech, saying in part that “this is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia — hysterical xenophobia — and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science,” which Trump later characterized as Biden calling the travel restrictions “xenophobic” (Biden repeated the line on Twitter the next day.)
It’s not clear if the Biden’s comments were directed toward the travel ban—his campaign now says it wasn’t—or past Trump comments, about China and elsewhere, largely derided as xenophobic.

While Trump would later take credit for coming up with the  restrictions, on February 7, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar tells reporters the restrictions “were the uniform recommendations of the career public health officials here at HHS” (Fauci works under HHS). 


In September, journalist Bob Woodward told NBC News the China restrictions were not Trump’s idea at all, but instead a recommendation by top health officials, including Fauci and Azar. 
CHIEF CRITIC


The Biden campaign has claimed the former vice president was not referencing Trump’s travel restriction on China during his speech in Iowa on January 31, and pointed to an op-ed Biden published in USA Today four days earlier that levies similar criticism at the president. “I remember how Trump sought to stoke fear and stigma during the 2014 Ebola epidemic,” Biden wrote on January 27, referencing a Trump tweet from 2014 about the Ebola crisis in which he called for then-President Obama to “close down flights from Ebola-infected countries” (As the Washington Post notes, there were no direct flights from Ebola-stricken parts of the world to the U.S. at that time.) Biden does go on to claim Trump was then in favor of “reactionary travel bans that would only have made things worse.” 


SURPRISING FACT 
The president has repeatedly hailed the restrictions as proof his administration responded adequately to the pandemic, often referring to the order as a “ban” on travel. However, the order was not a “ban” at all. The order exempted citizens, permanent residents and most family members. The only people who were restricted from coming into the country from China were foreign nationals who had visited China in the last 14 days. Forty-five nations implemented travel restrictions on China before the U.S. did. After Trump issued the order on China, his administration did not institute further travel restrictions until February 27. Experts later concluded a large source of the outbreak in the U.S. may have been from travelers based in Europe, not Asia. 


BIG NUMBER
40,000. That’s how many people flew from China to the United States in the two months after Trump implemented the travel restrictions on China, according to the New York Times. 

TL;DR No one politicized this but Trump and Biden never called the travel ban xenophobic.  And it wasn't even really a ban.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 12:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/10/22/trump-touts-his-coronavirus-china-ban-to-bash-biden-and-fauci-heres-why-thats-a-problem/#162bff8925b2



TL;DR No one politicized this but Trump and Biden never called the travel ban xenophobic.  And it wasn't even really a ban.

No one mentioned Biden. Just because Biden claimed to be the Democratic party doesn't mean other people aren't also members of the Democrat party. 

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 12:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So, no, everything he said was NOT a "huge lie". 

What did he say that was true?

Jan. 22
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

Feb. 2:
"We pretty much shut it down coming in from China,"

Feb. 10
“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb. 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb. 26: Fewer than three weeks after telling Woodward the coronavirus was deadlier than a strenuous flu, the president said during a White House coronavirus task force briefing: "The flu, in our country, kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. That was shocking to me. And, so far, if you look at what we have with the 15 people and their recovery, one is -- one is pretty sick but hopefully will recover, but the others are in great shape. But think of that: 25,000 to 69,000."

Feb. 26
"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

March 9
“The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power ... to inflame the CoronaVirus situation.”

March 10
“We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”



TRUMP WAS TAPED BY BOB WOODWARD AND DOES NOT DENY LYING ABOUT HOW SERIOUS THE THREAT WAS.

[*bfine32*]

(10-27-2020, 12:57 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No one mentioned Biden. Just because Biden claimed to be the Democratic party doesn't mean other people aren't also members of the Democrat party. 

I actually asked Fred if Biden called Trump ban Xenophobic.

It was to speak to the "If you go by their exact words then you're splitting hairs" assertion.

He didn't answer; Dino did. And Dino stated those weren't Biden's exact words. 

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did you answer the question posed or just make something up to answer? 

If the travel ban was about preventing the spread of the virus then it would have been a true travel ban.

It appears that it was a xenophobic move in an attempt to blame the damage on the Chinese instead of his inept handling of the pandemic.  This position is backed up by the fact that Trump is the only person on earth to call it the "Chinese flu".  Why do you think he does that?

Trump admits to lying about how serious the threat was.  The democrats and doctors told the truth about how serious it was.  Trump call the truth a "hoax" and his supporters still defend him for doing that. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-27-2020, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: **Check on Point of View"**

Did Biden call Trump's early travel ban to China Xenophobic? 

(10-27-2020, 01:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the travel ban was about preventing the spread of the virus then it would have been a true travel ban.

It appears that it was a xenophobic move in an attempt to blame the damage on the Chinese instead of his inept handling of the pandemic.  This position is backed up by the fact that Trump is the only person on earth to call it the "Chinese flu".  Why do you think he does that?

Trump admits to lying about how serious the threat was.  The democrats and doctors told the truth about how serious it was.  Trump call the truth a "hoax" and his supporters still defend him for doing that. 

Did you answer the question posed or just make something up to answer?

[fredtoast]

Let me repeat myself just so everyone understands.

The Chinese travel ban did not ban travel from China because it was not about stopping the spread of the virus. Instead it was an attempt to blame China for the damage instead of his own failure. That is also why he calls it the "Chinee Flu".

So the Chinese travel ban was a xenophobic move instead of a serious attempt to actually control the spread of the virus.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me repeat myself just so everyone understands.

The Chinese travel ban did not ban travel from China because it was not about stopping the spread of the virus.  Instead it was an attempt to blame China for the damage instead of his own failure.  That is also why he calls it the "Chinee Flu".  

So the Chinese travel ban was a xenophobic move instead of a serious attempt to actually control the spread of the virus.

Can you please post the link of the transcript where Trump says this and states that this is his intention?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What did he say that was true?

Jan. 22
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

Feb. 2:
"We pretty much shut it down coming in from China,"

Feb. 10
“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

Feb. 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb. 26: Fewer than three weeks after telling Woodward the coronavirus was deadlier than a strenuous flu, the president said during a White House coronavirus task force briefing: "The flu, in our country, kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. That was shocking to me. And, so far, if you look at what we have with the 15 people and their recovery, one is -- one is pretty sick but hopefully will recover, but the others are in great shape. But think of that: 25,000 to 69,000."

Feb. 26
"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

March 9
“The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power ... to inflame the CoronaVirus situation.”

March 10
“We’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”



TRUMP WAS TAPED BY BOB WOODWARD AND DOES NOT DENY LYING ABOUT HOW SERIOUS THE THREAT WAS.

Where did I say that Trump never lied? I didn't. But whatever deflects attention off when you're wrong ...

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 01:13 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can you please post the link of the transcript where Trump says this and states that this is his intention?

I know this will shock a person like you who believes Trump can do no wrong and would never tell a lie, but he, like most other politicians, does not admit their mistakes when they try to cover them up.

You have to be pretty naive the believe that no politician ever does anything wrong unless he publicly admits it.

But I will ask how a travel ban that allowed 40,000 people to travel here from China stopped the spread of the virus.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 01:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Where did I say that Trump never lied? I didn't. But whatever deflects attention off when you're wrong ...

Again, I am not wrong.

1.  Democrats told the truth about the threat of the virus.

2.  Trump lied about the threat of the virus.

3.  Trump called the truth the democrats were saying a "hoax".


What part of that is wrong?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 01:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know this will shock a person like you who believes Trump can do no wrong and would never tell a lie, but he, like most other politicians, does not admit their mistakes when they try to cover them up.

You have to be pretty naive the believe that no politician ever does anything wrong unless he publicly admits it.

But I will ask how a travel ban that allowed 40,000 people to travel here from China stopped the spread of the virus.

So no link them?  No transcript?  Pure speculation and/or assumption?  Ok, thanks.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 01:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So no link them?  No transcript?  Pure speculation and/or assumption?  Ok, thanks.

It must be strange to live in a world where no politician ever tells a lie unless he admits to it in public.

Why do you think Trump is the only world leader to call Covid "The China Flus"? 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I am not wrong.

1.  Democrats told the truth about the threat of the virus.

2.  Trump lied about the threat of the virus.

3.  Trump called the truth the democrats were saying a "hoax".


What part of that is wrong?

All of it.

(10-27-2020, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It must be strange to live in a world where no politician ever tells a lie unless he admits to it in public.

Why do you think Trump is the only world leader to call Covid "The China Flus"? 

Probably because no other country blamed its leader for the all of the deaths by COVID. 

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2020, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2.  Trump lied about the threat of the virus.

What part of that is wrong?

(10-27-2020, 02:16 PM)PhilHos Wrote: All of it.

You are unaware that that Bob Woodward has the Trump on tape and Trump has admitted that he lied to the American people about the threat of Covid -19?

It is shocking to me that there are people out there who do not know this.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2020, 11:23 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Never happened. You have legitimate criticisms of Trump (like the part of your post I didn't quote). Why do you feel the need on spreading things that are patently false about Trump? You do realize that everytime you share false information that only helps Trump with his "fake news" claims, right?

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2020, 04:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:

It's bizarre he mentions the corona virus and the crowd laughs like they're watching a stand up routine.  Or is that a groan?  Either way, it's an oddly dismissive response. 

[Brownshoe]

(10-27-2020, 04:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/08/ask-politifact-are-you-sure-donald-trump-didnt-cal/

Politifact says that's fake news. They just edited it to make it seems like he was talking about coronavirus being the "new hoax" when in fact he was just talking about the Democrats criticizing him. This is why people cry fake news.





13:45 is when he starts talking about coronavirus and saying that "they have to take it very, very seriously" and "they're preparing for the worst".

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2020, 05:34 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/oct/08/ask-politifact-are-you-sure-donald-trump-didnt-cal/

Politifact says that's fake news. They just edited it to make it seems like he was talking about coronavirus being the "new hoax" when in fact he was just talking about the Democrats criticizing him. This is why people cry fake news.





13:45 is when he starts talking about coronavirus and saying that "they have to take it very, very seriously" and "they're preparing for the worst".

That's why I wrote Trump claimed it was "the Democrat's new hoax" and not "a hoax."