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(02-23-2021, 01:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So more of ignoring the actual issues at hand and instead focusing on a hot-button issue to rile up voting bases? Seems about right.
Yea, I am not so sure anything recently is changing anything. I think any sort of change would come from decades of declining gun ownership as a percentage of the population. That is probably still a generation or two away though before you would see something like that take hold enough to make changes occur.
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(02-23-2021, 01:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, I am not so sure anything recently is changing anything. I think any sort of change would come from decades of declining gun ownership as a percentage of the population. That is probably still a generation or two away though before you would see something like that take hold enough to make changes occur.
I agree. Gun control is one of those money-making issues for the politicians so until they absolutely can't avoid it, they won't really do anything at the federal level.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
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(02-23-2021, 01:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I agree. Gun control is one of those money-making issues for the politicians so until they absolutely can't avoid it, they won't really do anything at the federal level.
Again a tangent but kind of related. I saw an interesting proposal to fight against Citizens United by federally matching individual donations to campaigns under 1k from a single donor by up to 6x. The idea is turning a room full of Jane and Joe's into a much more lucrative lobbyist to pander to. I thought it was interesting and your bringing up money made me think about it.
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(02-23-2021, 01:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: Again a tangent but kind of related. I saw an interesting proposal to fight against Citizens United by federally matching individual donations to campaigns under 1k from a single donor by up to 6x. The idea is turning a room full of Jane and Joe's into a much more lucrative lobbyist to pander to. I thought it was interesting and your bringing up money made me think about it.
Eh, Citizens United is less of a problem than Buckley v. Valeo. But even that doesn't play as big of a role as most people think.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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(02-23-2021, 02:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eh, Citizens United is less of a problem than Buckley v. Valeo. But even that doesn't play as big of a role as most people think.
The way it was explained they aren’t going to be able to easily curtail the money from that direction without creating massive issues so they decided to attack it by multiplying the impact of every citizen.
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(02-23-2021, 01:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So more of ignoring the actual issues at hand and instead focusing on a hot-button issue to rile up voting bases? Seems about right.
When they are having to build walls around the White House and governors mansions I would say that IS the "actual issue at hand".
For years the Department of Homeland security has been saying that domestic terrorism is a bigger threat than foreign terrorists. Now that everyone is seeing it on the news people will start paying more attention.
I still see the problem as criminals having easy access to guns. But people that lived in low crime neighborhoods generally did not worry too much about that. Now that more of these criminals are middle class white guys threatening our elected officials instead of minority gang members killing each other public opinion is likely to shift.
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(02-23-2021, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: AS another aside I was listening to some stuff about the mob on 1/6 and I got to thinking that they finally got their chance to "overthrow" the government that they didn't believe was legitimate (thanks to Trump's lying) and after a hour or so they gave up and left.
So much for that theory.
They let the woman go first then immediately retreated once she got capped.
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(02-23-2021, 02:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When they are having to build walls around the White House and governors mansions I would say that IS the "actual issue at hand".
For years the Department of Homeland security has been saying that domestic terrorism is a bigger threat than foreign terrorists. Now that everyone is seeing it on the news people will start paying more attention.
I still see the problem as criminals having easy access to guns. But people that lived in low crime neighborhoods generally did not worry too much about that. Now that more of these criminals are middle class white guys threatening our elected officials instead of minority gang members killing each other public opinion is likely to shift.
I was speaking more to the problem being, as you mentioned, domestic terrorism being ignored, but also what caused the radicalization? Why are these people feeling so aggrieved? How are they so susceptible to these lies? How are these lies so easily spread?
Some of the insurrectionists may have been armed, but gun control wouldn't have prevented any of what happened on January 6th, including the pipe bombs.
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(02-23-2021, 02:22 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: They let the woman go first then immediately retreated once she got capped.
I mean they really did just go "eh, this is hard" and left.
And to your point they never fired back once someone got shot.
It's almost like they are cowards who aren't willing to die but want to act tough until there is the slightest resistance....like Trump.
I don't think it is a sign of how many people believed the big lie though. Millions of those nuts still out there. Probably also cowards.
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(02-23-2021, 02:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean they really did just go "eh, this is hard" and left.
And to your point they never fired back once someone got shot.
It's almost like they are cowards who aren't willing to die but want to act tough until there is the slightest resistance....like Trump.
I don't think it is a sign of how many people believed the big lie though. Millions of those nuts still out there. Probably also cowards.
It's fascinating how much you engage in behavior that you claim to despise.
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(02-23-2021, 02:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I was speaking more to the problem being, as you mentioned, domestic terrorism being ignored, but also what caused the radicalization? Why are these people feeling so aggrieved? How are they so susceptible to these lies? How are these lies so easily spread?
Some of the insurrectionists may have been armed, but gun control wouldn't have prevented any of what happened on January 6th, including the pipe bombs.
Some of that I suppose is socio-economic but some of it is they blame their own problems on "them" and they fell for an easy line from Trump that only he could save them.
Much like a televangelist.
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(02-23-2021, 02:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean they really did just go "eh, this is hard" and left.
And to your point they never fired back once someone got shot.
It's almost like they are cowards who aren't willing to die but want to act tough until there is the slightest resistance....like Trump.
I don't think it is a sign of how many people believed the big lie though. Millions of those nuts still out there. Probably also cowards.
This sorta reads like you're disappointed there wasn't a big gun battle and pitched fighting with large body counts.
Last I checked, wasn't not shooting people a good thing?
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I thought Obama already took everyone's guns??
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(02-24-2021, 02:33 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This sorta reads like you're disappointed there wasn't a big gun battle and pitched fighting with large body counts.
Last I checked, wasn't not shooting people a good thing?
Then you sorta read it wrong.
I am totally anti-violence. My posting history will attest to that.
I'm merely commenting on what these "patriots" SAID they would do (that day and on line for years in defense of their right to overthrow the government) and what they really did. Consider it a report of what actually happened instead of applying opinion...mine or yours.
To your second sentence that is why a lot of people were kind of glad the police didn't attack the "patriots" the way they did when the POTUS wanted a photo-op and they had to move actual peaceful protestors.
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(02-24-2021, 02:33 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This sorta reads like you're disappointed there wasn't a big gun battle and pitched fighting with large body counts.
Last I checked, wasn't not shooting people a good thing?
This sorta reads like a strawman
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(02-24-2021, 01:49 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: This sorta reads like a strawman
Incorrect, it's an interpretation of GM's post.
This is a strawman
(02-24-2021, 03:10 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I thought Obama already took everyone's guns??
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(02-24-2021, 01:49 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: This sorta reads like a strawman
It was just a wrong interpretation of what I actually wrote. It happens. When it does (to me) I correct it.
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(02-24-2021, 01:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is a strawman
(02-24-2021, 03:10 AM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I thought Obama already took everyone's guns??
No it isn't. It is sarcasm.
Big difference.
But it is kind of funny when you realize how long the NRA has been repeating that same claim.
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They have legitimate arguments they could make and they do this?
It's just stupid.
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This isn't a congressional or administration thing, but I wanted to bring it up: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2021/03/24/12-17808.pdf
Tl;dr: Hawaii was issuing zero permits to carry a firearm for self-defense. Citizen sued saying that Hawaii's refusal to issue the permits was an infringement of their 2A rights. The 9th Circuit issued this ruling which states that the 2A does not guarantee the right to carry a firearm outside the home for self-defense.
This doesn't change much of anything for right now, but this will probably end up being one of the next big gun control cases taken to SCOTUS.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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