With Green/Atkins/Dalton's Window Closing......

[BFritz21]

Maybe our window with Green/Dalton/Atkins/etc. isn't exactly closing with how much longer players seem to be playing these days, but these players won't be in their prime for that much longer, so how much of our future would you sell to pick up potential difference makers in this year's draft?

I see some people picking one of the tackles in mock drafts and other people going after a guy like Devin White to solidify our backing core, so is either guy a big enough difference maker to trade away future picks to try and go all-in for this year?

Do you think we should just stay put with everything in the draft and hope we get some difference makers and then maybe we'll be active in free agency?

Will we go all-in to win this year with the draft and/or free agents? Should we?

[HarleyDog]

Hope they don’t do anything until it’s warranted. But then again, I’m still recovering from Whitworth ordeal.

[*ochocincos*]

I think “the core” has another 2-3 years left. For them to get to the promised land, they need two good starting LBs, at least a good RG and RT, a good interior rusher (could just be a nickel DT), and another consistent, reliable pass catcher. With the last one, TE probably makes more sense if the team has faith in Ross developing further.
All of that can be achieved in this upcoming offseason, but it will require damn good drafting and bringing in at least two good FAs who also play well for Bengals. For FAs, LB and maybe RT look like the best areas to get talent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Essex Johnson]

(01-19-2019, 08:58 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Hope they don’t do anything until it’s warranted. But then again, I’m still recovering from Whitworth ordeal.

And that is the conundrum,  we had with players like Whiworth so we draft tackles in 1/2 round to replace a solid but aging player and it does not work out and the player moves on and is productive still

[Daddy-O]

The draft is a crap shoot for the most part. If you were to sell these core players the best you could do would be to land another 1st rounder. We already have the number 11 pick which should provide the difference maker you covet - if selected correctly of course.

We know what we have in the guys you mentioned so why gamble away for hope and potential. I am of the mindset, although not a popular one on these boards, that this team is still very close to competing. LB is one major weakness that needs to be addressed, and maybe a guard on the O-line.

I want to see what this team can do with new coaching before starting over.

[Sled21]

(01-19-2019, 09:18 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And that is the conundrum,  we had with players like Whiworth so we draft tackles in 1/2 round to replace a solid but aging player and it does not work out and the player moves on and is productive still

And, say the Bengals had offered Whit the same length deal LA did, and he knee went out again in the following camp. How many hindsight 20/20 guys on here would be flaming the front office for offering a 3 year deal to a player Whit's age? Offering the 1 year deal was the smart play. Whit just beat the odds and is still playing at Pro Bowl level. That does not happen very often.....

[Luvnit2]

(01-19-2019, 05:48 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Maybe our window with Green/Dalton/Atkins/etc. isn't exactly closing with how much longer players seem to be playing these days, but these players won't be in their prime for that much longer, so how much of our future would you sell to pick up potential difference makers in this year's draft?

I see some people picking one of the tackles in mock drafts and other people going after a guy like Devin White to solidify our backing core, so is either guy a big enough difference maker to trade away future picks to try and go all-in for this year?

Do you think we should just stay put with everything in the draft and hope we get some difference makers and then maybe we'll be active in free agency?

Will we go all-in to win this year with the draft and/or free agents?  Should we?

The windows should always be open, why would they ever close? Steelers have a 35+ year old QB, look to be losing HOF receiver Brown and great running back Bell, but they will survive and win. Pats have a 40+ year QB, old TE Gronk and WR Edelman, they will survive.

If our defense was consistently top 5, I would say the loss of studs to age would worry me, but truth be told these so called great players don't produce an elite unit. AD can play for 10 more years. Green should be goof for 3 to 5 so time to find his replacement.

[The Real Deal]

To put it quite frankly, I’d be surprised if we were legit contenders this season. As has been outlined above, I just think there are too many spots to fill in one offseason. Maybe they will surprise me and be Uber aggressive this offseason, but even if they do, there is now guarantee that the players will all work out. In my opinion being a real contender this season is a long shot. This year I’m mostly looking to see these players take to the new system and show us that the future looks bright under Taylor. And if in the process they do end up being contenders this year, it a huge bonus.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: The draft is a crap shoot for the most part.  If you were to sell these core players the best you could do would be to land another 1st rounder.  We already have the number 11 pick which should provide the difference maker you covet - if selected correctly of course.

We know what we have in the guys you mentioned so why gamble away for hope and potential.  I am of the mindset, although not a popular one on these boards, that this team is still very close to competing.  LB is one major weakness that needs to be addressed, and maybe a guard on the O-line.

I want to see what this team can do with new coaching before starting over.

I'm with this state of mind.

If they can't make strides with adding to the current core this season...  then start moving players next off season/season.

They should really look at players whose salaries they can dump this year to be active in FA.

Burfict being high on that list.  Perhaps Glenn too.

[BengalChris]

(01-19-2019, 05:48 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Maybe our window with Green/Dalton/Atkins/etc. isn't exactly closing with how much longer players seem to be playing these days, but these players won't be in their prime for that much longer, so how much of our future would you sell to pick up potential difference makers in this year's draft?

I see some people picking one of the tackles in mock drafts and other people going after a guy like Devin White to solidify our backing core, so is either guy a big enough difference maker to trade away future picks to try and go all-in for this year?

Do you think we should just stay put with everything in the draft and hope we get some difference makers and then maybe we'll be active in free agency?

Will we go all-in to win this year with the draft and/or free agents?  Should we?

We should be able to draft 3 or 4 starters in this draft. I expect a starting RT and RG will be gotten in the 2nd to 4th rounds. White should be an instant starter and upgrade at LB. Doing our homework on RT's and we should have an immediate upgrade there and at RG as well.

Then it's a matter of TE and depth at OT and other positions. We could also use a WR who can actually play behind Green and Boyd.

[HuDey]

In my opinion it would be a waste of time and resources to try to gear up for a Super Bowl run within the next two years. Doing so would only result in failure and delay the inevitable and much needed reboot. There are too many holes to fill, and as many have stated, there is no guarantee that players drafted to fill those holes will pan out. Also what difference makers are even available in FA? Would they come to play here even if we gave them a serious offer?

The rebuild is coming and I would rather start it sooner rather than continue to watch our mediocre QB behind our lousy O-line try to keep up with the points given up by our lousy defense.

[McC]

(01-19-2019, 01:30 PM)HuDey Wrote: In my opinion it would be a waste of time and resources to try to gear up for a Super Bowl run within the next two years. Doing so would only result in failure and delay the inevitable and much needed reboot. There are too many holes to fill, and as many have stated, there is no guarantee that players drafted to fill those holes will pan out. Also what difference makers are even available in FA? Would they come to play here even if we gave them a serious offer?

The rebuild is coming and I would rather start it sooner rather than continue to watch our mediocre QB behind our lousy O-line try to keep up with the points given up by our lousy defense.

I agree with basically none of this.

[CornerBlitz]

I think AJ Green and Atkins are still playing at an elite level. The problem is we need a QB that matches them and we don't have it.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-19-2019, 11:46 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: To put it quite frankly, I’d be surprised if we were legit contenders this season. As has been outlined above, I just think there are too many spots to fill in one offseason. Maybe they will surprise me and be Uber aggressive this offseason, but even if they do, there is now guarantee that the players will all work out. In my opinion being a real contender this season is a long shot. This year I’m mostly looking to see these players take to the new system  and show us that the future looks bright under Taylor. And if in the process they do end up being contenders this year, it a huge bonus.

This is basically what I'm looking at as well. I think they'll pretty much stick with the core we have, get rid of some dead wood and start the rebuilding. If it's enough to contend so be it but I'd say we're a year away from real contention.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2019, 01:30 PM)HuDey Wrote: In my opinion it would be a waste of time and resources to try to gear up for a Super Bowl run within the next two years. Doing so would only result in failure and delay the inevitable and much needed reboot. There are too many holes to fill, and as many have stated, there is no guarantee that players drafted to fill those holes will pan out. Also what difference makers are even available in FA? Would they come to play here even if we gave them a serious offer?

The rebuild is coming and I would rather start it sooner rather than continue to watch our mediocre QB behind our lousy O-line try to keep up with the points given up by our lousy defense.

Okay, if we had no one other than the guys on rookie contracts here right now how long do you predict it would take to "re-build"?

We have a lot of talented players here, but it has taken several years to accumulate them.  I don't know how we could be better off re-building with zero than rebuilding with established players.

Since the draft is a crap shoot then any "re-boot" based just on draft picks is also a crap shoot.  It is much smarter to work with the players we have already found and reduce our gambling with draft picks to just the few major holes that we have right now.  On offense we need 2 O-linemen and a TE, On defense we need 2 or 3 LBs and a DT (if we re-sign Dennard).  We are not going to get a huge pile of picks for our older expensive players and we are not going to hit on 100% of our picks.

[BengalChris]

(01-19-2019, 11:34 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The windows should always be open, why would they ever close? Steelers have a 35+ year old QB, look to be losing HOF receiver Brown and great running back Bell, but they will survive and win. Pats have a 40+ year QB, old TE Gronk and WR Edelman, they will survive.

If our defense was consistently top 5, I would say the loss of studs to age would worry me, but truth be told these so called great players don't produce an elite unit. AD can play for 10 more years. Green should be goof for 3 to 5 so time to find his replacement.

AD not equal Tom Brady.

AD needs to play quite well in the 2019 season or he'll be done in Cinci. Marv and mediocreness have been sent packing and any player who doesn't step up is going to be replaced rather quickly.

The 2018 season showed a number of players who didn't step up in big ways; like Hart, Redmond, Burfict, Nickerson, MJ, Ross, Malone, Core, etc, etc. I'm looking for those positions to be addressed in this off season.

The 2019 season will reveal the next band of players who don't step up.

[grampahol]

(01-19-2019, 11:34 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The windows should always be open, why would they ever close? Steelers have a 35+ year old QB, look to be losing HOF receiver Brown and great running back Bell, but they will survive and win. Pats have a 40+ year QB, old TE Gronk and WR Edelman, they will survive.

If our defense was consistently top 5, I would say the loss of studs to age would worry me, but truth be told these so called great players don't produce an elite unit. AD can play for 10 more years. Green should be goof for 3 to 5 so time to find his replacement.

I'm always amused to read how old 30 is now days. Sure, it's really old if you're talking about a loaf of moldy bread or that last slice of cake in the back of the fridge, but not that old when talking about human beings unless they're all in active combat roles in the military.
We often hear how players are bigger, faster, stronger, etc., but truth be told there really isn't some secret facility where super human football players are bread in petri dishes.. They're just conditioned better and eat better with a bit less exposure to getting hit in practice.
Andy hasn't had to suffer any real significant injuries other than to his hands and AJ has his toe. ACL injuries (Geno) used to be soul crushers, but medical science is leaps and bounds better than in Icky Woods days and pretty mundane stuff anymore. The one guy I suspect will be addicted to pain killers at some point in life is Tyler Eifert with his back, but even he was able to play at a high level until his ankle gave way this year. I wouldn't be that surprised that in 10 years we don't have running backs in their 40s fairly routinely...(well maybe not running backs, but plenty of other positions..)
Anyway, none of these guys are so old that they're anywhere near he age of receiving social security benefits unless they just quit, squander their wealth and apply for disability.. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-19-2019, 05:48 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Maybe our window with Green/Dalton/Atkins/etc. isn't exactly closing with how much longer players seem to be playing these days, but these players won't be in their prime for that much longer, so how much of our future would you sell to pick up potential difference makers in this year's draft?

I see some people picking one of the tackles in mock drafts and other people going after a guy like Devin White to solidify our backing core, so is either guy a big enough difference maker to trade away future picks to try and go all-in for this year?

Do you think we should just stay put with everything in the draft and hope we get some difference makers and then maybe we'll be active in free agency?

Will we go all-in to win this year with the draft and/or free agents? Should we?

That is the thing, we don't have a clue now which is pretty frickin' awesome. These changes have made me think anything is possible and who knows how Taylor will run things? All i know is that those players have atleast 3 more years in them, i would keep them around for as long as possible, especially Geno and AJ. We can draft their replacements in a year or two and they will be VERY hard to be replaced as they are HOF caliber players.

Concentrate on the O-line and Linebacker this Offseason and this will help everyone. Green, Dalton and Geno included.

[HuDey]

(01-19-2019, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay, if we had no one other than the guys on rookie contracts here right now how long do you predict it would take to "re-build"?

I don’t recall saying that I wanted to replace EVERY player not on a rookie deal, but yes some of them should be traded if possible and if the compensation makes sense.

We have a lot of talented players here, but it has taken several years to accumulate them.  I don't know how we could be better off re-building with zero than rebuilding with established players.

Again, I don’t wish to build from “zero”, but I do believe that this team needs some new on-field leadership just as badly as they needed it on the sidelines

Since the draft is a crap shoot then any "re-boot" based just on draft picks is also a crap shoot.  It is much smarter to work with the players we have already found and reduce our gambling with draft picks to just the few major holes that we have right now.  On offense we need 2 O-linemen and a TE, On defense we need 2 or 3 LBs and a DT (if we re-sign Dennard).  We are not going to get a huge pile of picks for our older expensive players and we are not going to hit on 100% of our picks.

I would not attempt to build with just draft picks. I would try to supplement with a few key free agent signings. The reason that I do not want to build around our current core is because first of all I don’t buy that we are only a few players away. In my opinion we need to replace at least 3 starters on the O-line, and all 3 starters at LB. I believe that it will take a couple of years to get those pieces in place and then maybe another year or two to get the young players playing at a high level. If you are content to squeak into the playoffs and then get embarrassed by the real contenders, then building around our current core might get you there. If you want to try to build a true contender then you might have to make some uncomfortable decisions and try something different.

[McC]

Ah yes.  Starting over.  Otherwise known as the ten year plan.