The long Western legacy of violence against Asian Americans

[hollodero]

(03-20-2021, 03:14 PM)Dill Wrote: 1. "Hate" is an impossibly vague term.

It is. It's also the one pretty safe initial assumption. That a killing spree is a hate crime, as in based on hatred.

Disclaimer, I know using the term hate crime is incorrect. I always found it odd how America uses the word hate crime for murdering someone of a different race though, as if it weren't a hate crime when murdering someone of your own race. But that's a sidenote really.

And I sure did not deny the need for research on to how that Atlanta incident or incidents like that came to happen. Maybe it's religion, maybe it's some incel stuff, maybe it's racism involved. I am wary of jumping to conclusions, especially to conclusions that just neatly fit into the existing thought pattern. Which, imho, is a problem, in this case and totally different cases. People reach a conclusion or a viewpoint on whatever, and then everything they see further confirms it. A pattern easily to see with others (eg. Trump supporters, we all see it there), but hard to impossible to spot within some others, a more familiar group, or oneself. Not so much talking about you specifically there.

(03-20-2021, 03:14 PM)Dill Wrote: 2. Hope I didn't give you the impression that "incel" is the catch-all label for any lonely man.

You did not. Many many people do. As is true with many other topics.

(03-20-2021, 03:14 PM)Dill Wrote:  I only brought up the incel movement to explain why, as Dino says, there is a stereotype of frustrated white males who kill women, but so far as I know, none of frustrated black males who commit this kind of crime.

I don't know about that. I seem to remember an Asian guy though, responsible for the Virginia Tech shooting, that had issues with females. Not quite feasible to stereotype Asians based on that though. There's also "honor killings", this stuff does happen, but one should (and I agree) shy away from painting Muslims as potential honor killers.
But yeah I think the stereotype of white frustrated killers imho stems from a certain willingness to stereotype white people in a manner you would not quite that easily stereotype asian men, or muslim/latino/black men. It's the woke thing to do, somehow.

--- And I'm not out to defend Mr. Whitie on anything. I suffer from double standards and disingenuous debates stemming from certain socially acceptable and inacceptable takes that often are not based on reality, but on a presumption of what is good to say and what is not. I expresssed quite a lot of them in my previous post, and to a large part these things still stand. Any of my exaggerations were used as a rhetorical trait.

(03-20-2021, 03:14 PM)Dill Wrote: As to the first, the pattern of "when which" is clearer when we look to the history of who has dominated whom.

Yes it is. I thought you'd mainly expand on that. I am not unsympathetic to this argument. As in you need wo be way more careful to use certain stereotypes if said stereotypes actually were used to oppress people, hurt people, or stem from a time where people were oppressed. And that makes sense, to a certain degree. There's just a point where it doesn't, as in critizising Israel is antisemitic or whatever example. Which, again, you probably wouldn't say, but many many people would.

(03-20-2021, 03:14 PM)Dill Wrote: Don't know which soccer player you refer to, or his circumstances. Did he play for a European team and experience racism, as non-Europeans often do?  Or are you just trying to evade your shared responsibility for turning him, Hollo! 

He was called Mesut Özil, he played in Europe and for Germany. I'm sure he got called something bad within his earlier life. I still called him an asshat for openly supporting Erdogan. Which wouldn't fly with leftist people, who rather blamed Germany and Germany's brown spots. Because white dude is always at fault and it's always the cool stance to take.



--- I don't have the time to address your other points and your other post now, maybe later. One thing I want to address from your other reply though, and it's this one.

(03-20-2021, 05:08 PM)Dill Wrote: Er, in the U.S., one cannot blame Christianity* "for all kinds of things" with complete impunity. You think so and you get Trump for president.

Yes! Exactly! And you did get Trump, didn't you. Now how did that happen. I think you laid the finger on it right there.

I wondered about that a lot too, and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that to a large part, or at least a certain part, it is a counterreaction to disingenuous PC points made, in one way or another. Not just about religion and religious people, but including about religion and religious people.

Trump did not tell it how it is, of course not. He had a certain appeal for not demanding everyone tell it like it is not though, on some topics at least. I get how this sentence is a tough sell, it is for me too. In the extreme, when I listen to some of the more woke social warriors out there making one questionable point after another and painting everyone who disagrees as primitive reactionary who is beyond them has a lot to do with it though. In the not so extreme cases, there's often still some residue of that. Left-leaning folk, at times, are tough to talk to if you don't align 100% with their take. Real tough.

A similar thing happening in my country, for sure. Try making a point here of how there's of course a natural limit in the number of refugees we can take in, including the social structure of a society. Which is not islamophobic, it's just true, at some point. Oh my, you immediately get scolded and called names, in the left spectrum at least. And non-leftists, independends, middle ground people, whatever, are so pissed about that they increasingly start going for the right-wing option. And then there's consternation.