Report: Burrow pushing for Bengals to draft Chase

[Shake n Blake]

(04-11-2021, 10:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: 1.Quoted above is the point you jumped in and started debating.  There's no strawmanning on my part, though you continue to try and debate the point.

2.Problem is, last year was considered a generational type WR class.  The WR's that went in 2 are guys that would go in the first in any other class.  Claypool put up measurables that rival Calvin Johnson, and he fell to the middle of the 2nd.  That's how stacked it was.  This year, it's OL that's stacked.  There will be OL in 2 that would be 1st rounders in other classes, not WR's.  Besides which, I thought you didn't want to be locked into one position group in 2.

3.Reiff played G in college.  Sewell played RT in high school.  NFL caliber players can get away with technique issues at lower levels that they can't against the elite in the NFL.  Sewell was 6'4", 319 in high school.  With that size and his feet, it doesn't matter if he starts his pass set with the wrong foot or leads with the wrong hand.  No high school kid can physically match up to him.  There have been multiple quotes from former NFL players that switching positions/sides isn't a simple matter at the NFL level in this thread, but if they don't give you pause, there's nothing I can say that will.

4.AJ was on pace for a career high in 40+ yard catches in '16, with 6 in 10 games.  I think you mean '17.  Hard to say in this period due to AJ losing a step with his consistent injuries.  Andy was good with deep throws to the middle of the field, post routes especially, but was terrible on the sidelines.  The OL falling apart definitely hurt them, but the injury in '16 was also the beginning of the end for AJ.

5.Which is why you can make a big argument for Chase at 5.  With the OL class being so deep, it's much more likely you can get a good value on an OL in 2 than a WR.  Smart GM's try to put themselves in situations where team needs intersect with BPA.  

Philly had an All Pro TE in Ertz.  Plus, they had the #4 defense.  Just winning the SB with a backup QB makes them an extreme anomaly.  I love how the Pats have been trashed on these boards for years for cheating, but they are the go to now for people that want to argue that you don't need elite WR's.  Burrow isn't Brady, Taylor isn't Bellicheat, we don't have their defense, and we don't cheat like they do.  2 seasons is more than enough for trends to start in the NFL.  

Maybe we should give MJ, Adeniji, and Johnson another year to see if they can develop into quality starters.  No?  Thought not.  Higgins had trouble getting open when he was facing #2-#3 CB's.  What's he going to do when Cleveland sticks Denzel Ward on him like they did AJ last year?  Besides which, 3 of the final 4 teams last year had multiple All Pro weapons in the passing game.  If Higgins makes that leap, who's the other guy?  

1. I see. So you're arguing against a careless statement made by Bengals67? Just because he was technically incorrect about any QB "always" getting 4 seconds, it seems kinda petty to focus on "always" to ignore the validity of the overall point.

2. I don't want to be locked in, but we don't have to take a guy in the 2nd. I was being facetious when I said that. My point was that the Steelers clearly didn't view WR3 (based on targets) to be such a dire need that they burned a 1st on it...let alone the 5th overall pick...and our duo of Higgins/Boyd is every bit as good as their duo of Johnson/Schuster was/is. They probably only took the guy because he fell to them, as you point out.

As for that draft class, there are many who view this WR class in a similar light:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-ranking-wide-receiver-prospects-lsu-jamarr-chase

Quote:The more I look at the 2021 wide receiver class, the more the parallels with last year's group leap out. This year's crop of pass-catchers once again includes two first-round stars from Alabama who are stylistically very different, and they are vying with a stud from another powerhouse blue-blood college program to be seen as the best receiver in April's draft.

The sheer depth is also incredible. For the second year in a row, several receivers will be selected in the first round, and they will be joined by a host of impact rookies taken on Day 2 and Day 3 of the draft, such is the array of talent available.

I could list more if you want, but we all love PFF, right?

3. Guys only punch with the wrong hand, etc if they switch sides. That wouldn't be an issue with Reiff if we played him at LG. Although he's switched sides in his NFL career successfully before. For every coach who says "it's not as easy as people think", I can list 5 players who switched successfully. It's not guaranteed to work out, but - again - you're making it seem far more dubious than it actually is.

I have little doubt that someone as talented and hard working as Sewell could switch sides.

4. No, I meant 2016...because that's when the line fell off...along with Andy's deep ball numbers. I remember because Andy's deep passing was a constant debate on here and I always had to look up the numbers. Unfortunately, my source for deep stats (ESPN) removed them, I guess. But I remember Dalton's deep stat decline coincided with the fall of the o-line.

Fwiw, AJ Green played 35 games between 2016 to 2018, and was still an elite player when he played.

5. What? No. The WR class is overall deeper than the overall OL class. Yes, you try to get need and value to intersect, but it doesn't always work out that way. A smart GM would know this. You can't plan for what the other 31 teams will do on draft day. One run on o-lineman (for example) would throw a giant wrench in your plans.

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I knew you'd bring up TE's or RB's. We're talking WR's here. You even mentioned WR's specifically when you were talking about Brady, and the current "era". You weren't talking about TE's or defense, or any other position...and even if you were, the argument here isn't to draft Pitts...is it?

I'll just ignore the rest. You seem like you're getting frustrated, bringing up stuff about the Pats cheating, etc...as if that has anything to do with our debate.

This feels like it could go on forever, so I'm going to do you a favor and bow out. Have a good night dude, no hard feelings. Good debate.