04-19-2021, 03:16 PM
(04-19-2021, 01:23 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It sounds like we mostly agree on the topic then, with the one exception being you feel I am not critical enough of the Lt.
Pretty much. If he had just exhibited a moderate level of compliance instead of refusing, arguing and debating then this whole thing would almost certainly have been handled without incident.
Quote:As far as the number of murders being lower than medical mistakes, I think the reason we talk about the police murders is because of the aforementioned power dynamic. There's a reason we speak for weeks about politicians who do something wrong even when their crime is not always a major crime or, in some cases, even illegal. When a person or group of people are given power over other people, it's natural and expected for their actions to be scrutinized far more than any other group of people. We should be holding people in positions of power to a higher standard, not to the same standard and certainly not to a lower standard. And it's also worth noting that murders aren't the definitive number when it comes to police violence. A member of the state committing violence of any kind on its citizens should be roundly condemned, no matter how uncommon it is. And when there are racial biases attached to that, it starts to get really messy.
I have zero issue with it being condemned. I have a major issue with it being treated like an epidemic. You have very powerful people in this country labeling law enforcement as a whole as a racist institution. This is beyond stupid. It's both hyperbolic and dangerous in the extreme.
Quote:This next point doesn't directly follow my previous point, per se, but the Shaver shooting is particularly egregious because not only did the police officer not face consequences for that blatantly terrible murder, but he actually was allowed to retire on medical grounds and collect a pension for the "trauma" that he suffered for having murdered him. I noticed your comment about it not being discussed for some reason as an indictment on the racialization of police violence. I personally see police violence as a socio economic issue more than anything. It just so happens minorities and poverty heavily intersect, for historically racist reasons. I don't think it's correct to state that police violence is only an issue for minorities, but I do think it's correct to state it disproportionately affects minorities due to socio economic issues.
For sure, if only because people of lower socioeconomic status are more frequently going to be involved in street level offenses that trigger this type of police interaction. They are also more likely, by dint of being poor, to have a vehicle with problems that would cause an LEO to pull the vehicle over.
Quote:I think the Shaver's murder was more an outlier than anything else, as Shaver isn't particularly poor nor is he a minority, which is why it probably didn't gain as much notoriety. Him being white undeniably helped also, of course. We've spoken about narratives and his murder was a circle peg in a square hold narrative. However, I think the initial reaction to the murder was also fairly different, as the officer was charged almost immediately (something like a month later following an investigation) and the charge did not require public outrage to be reached. Unfortunately, it ended in the same way, with the murderer walking free.
Absolutely, and it is this narrative that I believe is causing so much harm and distrust. Studies have shown that LEO's are more likely to shoot a white offender than a black one.
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877
But that doesn't fit the narrative, so it is ignored. There's a lot of people making a lot of money on race hustling right now and there's a lot of politicians making a lot of political hay the same way. It's a bad combination, it's volatile and we're all going to pay the price for it.
