04-22-2021, 12:25 PM
(04-22-2021, 11:47 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Again, PDub I respect what your saying, and appreciate you have no issue with people wanting results.
However, when it comes to players talking about their boss no ones ever going to throw their boss under the bus so to speak.
In the early 90's when Dave Shula was struggling and David Klingler was our QB I never once heard a player criticize Dave Shula or the scheme that I can remember. We all knew Dave Shuia was a crap coach but it wasnt until year 3 or 4 you started to hear players chirp because they were losing and losing bad. They became the Bungals.
When talking about the roster, you say Zac was given a horrible roster? So this so called horrible roster had multiple Pro Bowlers on the roster. Zac came in with the idea he was going to run the defense he wanted to run and brought in a DC who runs a zone defense when the personnel was brought in for man to man. Great idea. A good or great coach would bring in a staff that would fit and slowly mold the personnel on the team currently instead of wait 3 years to change out the entire team.
Marvin came into the Bengals in 2003 and after 12 years of losing was able to turn around that team and have them in the playoffs in year 3. I'd expect that our of ZT. This is NOW ZT team. Whether he likes it or not. This is his team and he built this team. This is what he's going to battle with this year. If he doesn't show improvement IMO he should be gone. You can only blame youth, injuries, age, old players, the DC sucks....excuses are like ***holes everyone got one.
The only result that matters is wins. I think Burrow is the only reason we could win last year. It's not because of Taylor.
Love the discussion. I will address your points in order as best as I can. This is how I see it...
1: Players did not have the outreach to speak in the 90s that they do now.
2: Players absolutely spoke out against Dave Shula. Mike Brown invented the "Carl Pickens" clause in Bengals contracts because of it. I think players are more patient than fans. I get that.
3: SILENCE says a lot, right? I get players not coming out and crapping on their coach or organization. Silence can be deafening, right? But, we aren't talking about interpreting silence, correct? We are talking about players... YOUNG, and VETERANS from other teams who are actively out there bringing this up in interviews. They are speaking out positively... in the offseason... on their own.
4: Zac Taylor was brought in so late for his start that so many coaches had already been hired. It's tough for me to hate on him for any of that. Frank Pollack came BACK because he liked the interview with Zac so much. Does what he has to say not matter? Is Frank Pollack lying, too?
5: Marvin fired his first AND 2nd DCs. He threw Leslie Frazier under a bus for the Bengals defensive failings. Frazier went on to have quite a bit of success as a DC for the Vikings and eventually became a head coach.
6: Zac Taylor's vision for how he wants the Bengals to play is different than Marvin's. They need to get those players on the roster. That takes time and there are growing pains. I prefer the Bengals to just hack off the crap that doesn't fit them and move on quickly rather than a long, slow, drawn out process.
7: Marvin was handed a roster with some borderline HOFers and a loaded offense... along with a good offensive line... He was also handed Carson his first year. The Bengals defense stunk, which is why they went 2-14... look at the box scores after the bye week in 2002. The Bengals were putting up points but couldn't stop anyone. So, the offense was coming on by the end of 2002. That 2002 roster had a really good foundation for Marvin to start from.
What did ZT have to start with? A busted AJ Green, a dumpy, overrated Andy Dalton, no offensive line... HOW MANY THREADS DO WE HAVE WHERE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THE BENGALS DRAFTS HAVE STUNK FOR A LONG TIME? His "probowlers" were probowlers in YEARS past, but way past their primes. Marvin came in with a roster that had young guns ready to explode. ZT's roster had a busted and broken roster plagued by 5-8 years of bad bad bad drafts.
I agree that ZT has to make major strides this season. The entire team does. I am willing to be patient because Taylor doesn't look totally inept or like he's getting outcoached. He has beaten some very good teams while being way outgunned most of the time.
^ That is all why I cannot just dismiss Joe Burrow's support of Taylor. It's unreasonable to look at the big picture and think ZT is the main issue.
