04-22-2021, 12:34 PM
(04-22-2021, 12:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Love the discussion. I will address your points in order as best as I can. This is how I see it...
1: Players did not have the outreach to speak in the 90s that they do now.
2: Players absolutely spoke out against Dave Shula. Mike Brown invented the "Carl Pickens" clause in Bengals contracts because of it. I think players are more patient than fans. I get that.
3: SILENCE says a lot, right? I get players not coming out and crapping on their coach or organization. Silence can be deafening, right? But, we aren't talking about interpreting silence, correct? We are talking about players... YOUNG, and VETERANS from other teams who are actively out there bringing this up in interviews. They are speaking out positively... in the offseason... on their own.
4: Zac Taylor was brought in so late for his start that so many coaches had already been hired. It's tough for me to hate on him for any of that. Frank Pollack came BACK because he liked the interview with Zac so much. Does what he has to say not matter? Is Frank Pollack lying, too?
5: Marvin fired his first AND 2nd DCs. He threw Leslie Frazier under a bus for the Bengals defensive failings. Frazier went on to have quite a bit of success as a DC for the Vikings and eventually became a head coach.
6: Zac Taylor's vision for how he wants the Bengals to play is different than Marvin's. They need to get those players on the roster. That takes time and there are growing pains. I prefer the Bengals to just hack off the crap that doesn't fit them and move on quickly rather than a long, slow, drawn out process.
7: Marvin was handed a roster with some borderline HOFers and a loaded offense... along with a good offensive line... He was also handed Carson his first year. The Bengals defense stunk, which is why they went 2-14... look at the box scores after the bye week in 2002. The Bengals were putting up points but couldn't stop anyone. So, the offense was coming on by the end of 2002. That 2002 roster had a really good foundation for Marvin to start from.
What did ZT have to start with? A busted AJ Green, a dumpy, overrated Andy Dalton, no offensive line... HOW MANY THREADS DO WE HAVE WHERE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THE BENGALS DRAFTS HAVE STUNK FOR A LONG TIME? His "probowlers" were probowlers in YEARS past, but way past their primes. Marvin came in with a roster that had young guns ready to explode. ZT's roster had a busted and broken roster plagued by 5-8 years of bad bad bad drafts.
I agree that ZT has to make major strides this season. The entire team does. I am willing to be patient because Taylor doesn't look totally inept or like he's getting outcoached. He has beaten some very good teams while being way outgunned most of the time.
^ That is all why I cannot just dismiss Joe Burrow's support of Taylor. It's unreasonable to look at the big picture and think ZT is the main issue.
You make a lot of good points. I honestly don't believe Dunlap or Atkins are washed up overrated Pro Bowlers. I think both could play in the league for another 2-3 years. I just think Lou's that shitty of a DC. Again, my opinion.
My issue with your take on the 2002 season is your right the defense sucked but who'd won in Cincinnati in 12 years? If i remember right Dick LeBeau who was a defensive master mind couldnt get that team to play defense. Why? Was it because he didnt know anything about defenses? I mean his defenses in Pittsburgh tell me different.
Marvin, IMO, built that team. There were pieces but Zac had as many pieces as Marvin did. Marvin is a great talent evaluator. I think Marvin checked out after that 2015 team lost in the playoffs. You could tell it in the drafts. Marvin and his staff were very involved with the drafts and evaluations and once we lost that playoff game shit went downhill. The 2019 draft sucked ass too, however, as you said Zac got hired late in the process.
My whole thing is show me results. I want to go buy a new jersey because I love the new jerseys. I love the new look. I love the new energy in the front office but that energy has to translate into wins on the field or your just putting lipstick on a pig.
