Teen girl in Columbus killed by police

[Dill]

(05-03-2021, 02:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Maybe, let's find out. 
If you find a gun on someone's person the question of "ownership" has already been resolved.
Again, a gross oversimplification.  There are so many variables inherent in finding a gun at the scene of a search. 

These three comments respond to my reconstruction of the back and forth between you and Fred.

I said I agreed that a gun found by a cop on a felon will not pose a legal problem. But that was not the issue I was addressing, but rather what happens if an "orphan" gun is found in a vehicle or residence, with more people than the felon.

There was no "gross oversimplification" in my point; even if "many variables" may be involved in finding a gun at the scene, that does not argue that registration is no help to police.

(05-03-2021, 02:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Guns are registered to someone, the legal purchaser.  To purchase a new firearm a NICS check must be conducted.  Of course older guns don't fall into this category.  But older guns make up a small fraction of firearms in these scenarios and those that do occur are largely stolen and have been reported as such, making their provenance known.

Guns may be registered to someone if the law requires registration. And the registry of guns then helps sort out who owns an orphan gun at a crime scene. I understood that to be Fred's point.

#239 you say "Fun fact criminals don't follow the law, so a gun registry will not assist law enforcement. What will help law enforcement is if you actually enforce existing gun laws instead of treating criminals with kid gloves because 'the criminal justice system is systemically racist.'"

It seemed to me Fred was arguing that gun registry does assist law enforcement. Why wouldn't that would make tracing stolen guns easier for police.

Are you arguing registration is unnecessary because 'most' stolen guns are reported stolen anyway?

(05-03-2021, 02:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, because they are.  The rest of this statement is a gross oversimplification as this is clearly not the case.
Because it's been reported as stolen?  Small hint, legal gun owners whose property has been stolen tend to report it.
The straw purchaser usually has little to do with the buyer on a day to day basis.  Your attempt to put this occurrence at 50/50 is grossly inaccurate.  More like 99/1.

I have to say, this all seems like a rather "gross oversimplification" to me.  E.g., I can think of several reasons why stolen guns might not be reported.

Lol just before posting this I saw Fred's link to the WaPo article about confiscated guns in Pittsburgh. 40% of the recovered stolen guns there had not been reported stolen by their owners. And Fred added the point the police generally don't run the registration of every gun they encounter when looking for something else.  So the supposed good behavior of gun owners doesn't obviate the need for registration.

Also I wasn't "attempting" to create data about straw purchasers relations to felons, just exploring a possibility. The ratio was not important.

So you are arguing that registration does not help police because people reliably report stolen guns and you can reliably assume that straw purchasers are not present when a gun is discovered in a car or residence?

(05-03-2021, 02:12 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:

Quote:Quote:If there were a debate in a state legislature over whether to register guns and this issue of straw purchase were raised, I doubt it would be treated as a substantial objection.

You're not really making a point here.  No one is in favor of straw purchasers.

In my example, your point about straw purchases would be raised by one side as an objection to registry, as in why it wouldn't be effective. There would not be anyone in that debate in favor of straw purchasers.

As I understand it, Fred was arguing that registration would help get guns off the street--especially in cases where an unclaimed gun is present in a car or residence.

Asserting that there are "many variables" involved in arrests for illegal possession does not really refute this general point, any more than a claim that most stolen guns are reported stolen.