Continued Trump Administration Fallout

[hollodero]

(05-07-2021, 08:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I say this sincerely, the US commitment to NATO and European safety is far greater than European commitment to NATO and US safety.

I find that hard to compare. I know that the point I'm making is a showboat and not quite that substantial maybe, but the European countries stood with the US after 9/11 and this is the only instance of article 5 ever being envoked. Quite some of them even went to Afghanistan (which was not article 5) at your side.

Not us, of course, we're neutral. But the cool ones.

And as I said... I know. Overall you might be right with your assessment. Just comparing the military might and the ressources it took to commit to it would make it look foolish to really contradict that. Our security depends on your military, not so much ours.

(05-07-2021, 08:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   I can pretty much guarantee you that even under Trump that if a NATO member was attacked we would jump at the chance to defend them.  Trump would certainly rub your nose in it, but he'd still do it.

Well, I believe you personally would do that for sure. But you might have a certain understanding that we do not trust the leaders you choose all that much any longer. Yeah Trump would probably have jumped as described. But what Don jr. will do in 12 years, or president Tucker or whoever you pick, that I will not claim to know so certain. We can't afford to, imho from our perspective it would be foolish to not see Trump as being a warning. Some things change gradually, like commitments to things and values in the US. Might not be likely, but very well possible.

(05-07-2021, 08:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   I think Europe has too many disparate cultures, and deep seated feelings, many of them negative, to make that type of union work.  Plus you have the rather significant disconnect between the former Warsaw Pact nations (look at the tension within Germany itself and the more marked extremism in the former DDR states) and the west.

Trust me, I know. It's an illusion, as I said.

(05-07-2021, 08:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   I think it would be much easier for Europe to present a united front without a central governing body, especially in the face of significant challenges.

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. As of now, we usually don't present a front at all. We let Putin pull all kinds of shit in front of our noses, we have no means but economical ones to make our words worth listening to, we have no strategy when it comes to Syria even though many of our problems come from there, we have roughly 28 approaches when it comes to Turkey and Erdogan, this could go on and on, we are split up and a halfassed pseudocommitment like the actual EU does not really change that. Economically, sure, that works just fine, but that's not enough to be prepared for the future. I mean, Arturo might see that totally different, but that's my frustration with it.

But yeah the alternative is an illusion. Can't abandon what I think is right though. I'm like one of those old Marxists, can't stop dreaming.

(05-07-2021, 08:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have a few friends from the Baltic states (all three of them), Croatia and the Czech Republic.  To a person none of them trust Germany at all, but would stand with them in a second against Russia.

Well, not to dismiss your overall point, but being preferrable to Putin is not quite a flaming endorsement. The Baltic states might list Russia just barely above North Korea probably.
Overall I do think there is a sense of solidarity between EU nations in severe cases, and to an extent with the people. Some kind of means and overall strategy would still go a long way.